TY250 twinshock clutch mod

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Ross Grimsey
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Re: TY250 twinshock clutch mod

Postby Ross Grimsey » Thu Apr 09, 2009 10:09 pm

Dead right John, When i was young we used to stuff about leaning shocks forward, converting forks to air, longer shocks, gas shocks, rude shocks you name it we tried it, i even tried water in the rear tyre ( great traction but my ty175 could only turn it in 1st gear ) Then all of a sudden i thought why not practise more ! ! Factory riders used to fly to another country open a brand new bike out of the crate and still win ! Modifications may make a very slight advantage ( not in the waterwheel case ) but the best modifications are to your technique, watch someone who is good at something and try and pick what they are doing different to you. I see guys running trick 2 stroke oil, aviation gas, carbon fibre this and that, lightwieght air, potsie is running 100 to 1 oil ratio and reckons its great so i better try 150 to 1. It just goes on and on, try anything except hard work !



Peter Paice
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Re: TY250 twinshock clutch mod

Postby Peter Paice » Thu Apr 09, 2009 10:27 pm

For those who don't remember Ross Grimsey from the 70's, he always let his riding do his talking. However, he has just expressed more sentiment on this site than I heard in the 10 years that I knew him. When we competed, we were concentrating so hard on trying to beat each other that conversation and humour were pretty much non existent. Ross coming from ACT and me from Sydney, we only came together at trials as rivals. The guy Ross was talking about winning an Aussie Title in 1978 without a clutch cable was himself. He got to the very top using hard work and determination. When I last heard of him, he was living somewhere in Brisbane area, so anyone looking for words of wisdom about twin shock riding should seek him out. I bet you don't find John Barwick poncing around with his clutch as he is also old school.



brownie
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Re: TY250 twinshock clutch mod

Postby brownie » Fri Apr 10, 2009 12:49 pm

I think David should be congratulated for experimenting with his clutch and posting it for everyone to read about it and telling us what works and what doesn't for him,.
It doesn't mean everyone has to rush out and do it but for some who would like a lighter clutch like me with arthritic fingers, which will probably get worse as time goes by,it may mean I can ride a bit longer.
When I was younger and the TY's and sherpa's etc were new I didn't notice the clutch either unless it didn't work.
I must say after not having a twinshock trials bike for 20 odd years until recently I was surprised to see the lack of the no stop rule in twinshock competition, it goes against that era of the bikes and riding style. The new style of bikes and riders is a completly different game there riding over stuff most of us wouldn't have dreamed of years ago.
Anyway David please keep telling us how the clutch is going I'm sure a lot of us will appreciate it just like your many other posts.Your wealth of twinshock and TY knowledge is amazing.

PS Any twinshock trials riders around Armidale NSW area.



David Lahey
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Re: TY250 twinshock clutch mod

Postby David Lahey » Fri Apr 10, 2009 1:42 pm

Its OK brownie. I don't think anyone is having a go at me about stopping or hopping the front etc on twinshocks, mainly because I also like to ride and watch other riders riding without stopping.
The sections I see set for twinshock class in SE Queensland are set in a way that does not advantage people who want to stop or hop (ie they are open enough to allow turning in the turns), but I have seen people hopping the fronts around on twinshock bikes when riding higher level (Open B grade) sections with their extreme turns, and am concerned that unless we manage the situation carefully, twinshock sections may eventually require hopping the front to stay clean in turns.
Roger has a good point about wanting to run Twinshock class (and probably Classic too) with the old (no-stop) rules and there is no reason we can't, if promoting clubs believe it will be popular with the riders. We already have one event up here run to no stop rules (Brooweena) and the rules work just as well as they did in the 1970s.
A consideration for events that have both modern and twinshock classes would be with the Observers having two different sets of rules to apply for the bikes coming through their section ie modern rules and no stop rules in the one section, and both sets of riders with the same colour (white) name boards.
For us to get the no stop rules back in use for our class, we probably need to make sure that riders are happy to do it. Maybe we should have a dedicated forum topic to get more feedback on the subject.


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Tee-Why
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Re: TY250 twinshock clutch mod

Postby Tee-Why » Fri Apr 10, 2009 2:25 pm

David Lahey wrote:For us to get the no stop rules back in use for our class, we probably need to make sure that riders are happy to do it. Maybe we should have a dedicated forum topic to get more feedback on the subject.


Good idea David, start a new posting about this, I would like to comment about this too, seeing this is now off topic from the original now.


I would rather push my twinshock than ride a modern!

Peter Paice
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Re: TY250 twinshock clutch mod

Postby Peter Paice » Fri Apr 10, 2009 6:20 pm

No criticism intended of David for trying to make his clutch light, it is just a worry that bikes are being modified to match modern bikes, and ridden in a modern style. I believe the whole reason for a twin shock class should be to bring back the riding style of that era combined with having a love for the old bikes.

I know my hands would have been much stronger back in the old days, so maybe a lighter clutch would be beneficial for older guys, but not necessary for use within a section.

The modern bikes are already available, so no need to modify old bikes. I have seen a couple of TY’s butchered and almost unrecognisable, to try and make them ride like a modern bike. The rules for twin shocks should be non stop and with the percentage of twin shock bikes being small compared to the rest, the observers would have no trouble accommodating them. There is no grey area for the observers to get confused under the 70’s rules. I’m sure the non stop rules would encourage older riders to come back to trials because there wouldn’t be the technical aspect required to ride modern style.

The modern rules being applied to old bikes are what annoy me, not the riders who are all enjoying this great sport.



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Starky
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Re: TY250 twinshock clutch mod

Postby Starky » Fri Apr 10, 2009 8:42 pm

WELL I am guilty of everything above. I now have 5.5 TYs. Three are restored to what they were back in the 70s. Two and a half are basket cases but I am working on one of those which is going to be my HOTTY (read Hot Rod TY) just because I can. I love all the shows on Austar where they have modified bikes just to make them diffrent, I think that is really all I want, something diffrent and the fun in doing it. I can always put it back to standard after I get it out of my system. :P

I am under no delusions, no amount of mods is going to improve my riding, I will never be Aussie Champ, I only aspire to being a good C Grade rider, It's all fun for me. I also totally agree practice, practice, practice is the only way to improve, it certainly helped me last year.

For the record, I am very happy to ride my standard TYs to the non stop rule. I don't think I would be allowed to do anything else with the guys I ride with.


Starky
When competing in a trial, I don't suffer from nerves, I get way too excited for that stuff!!!!

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trialsmutha
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Re: TY250 twinshock clutch mod

Postby trialsmutha » Sat Apr 11, 2009 5:29 pm

wish i had of said that!


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brt650
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Re: TY250 twinshock clutch mod

Postby brt650 » Sat Apr 11, 2009 11:35 pm

non stop rule? I already ride that. If I stop I fall over.Too much talent needed to stop and slip the clutch. :shock: And David by the way I fitted a Yamaha nylon lined cable(modified to fit) to my Italjet and lengthened the lever ratio at the engine. Not my idea's. Andy Daly for the cable and Greg Nordsvan for the lever. Gotta give credit to those that deserve it. And yes it's much better.



David Lahey
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Re: TY250 twinshock clutch mod

Postby David Lahey » Sun Apr 12, 2009 8:15 am

brt650 wrote:non stop rule? I already ride that. If I stop I fall over.Too much talent needed to stop and slip the clutch. :shock: And David by the way I fitted a Yamaha nylon lined cable(modified to fit) to my Italjet and lengthened the lever ratio at the engine. Not my idea's. Andy Daly for the cable and Greg Nordsvan for the lever. Gotta give credit to those that deserve it. And yes it's much better.


Yes the quality of the cable is very important and it is best from a cable friction perspective to have the most leverage at the motor end, rather than at the hand lever end, because that way it minimises the force that the cable carries, which is where most of the friction comes from.
Have you tried running with some of the springs removed? I seem to remember a couple of years ago some of the guys at a DMCC trial telling me they did that on their Italjets.


relax, nothing is under control


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