Twinshock class run to no-stop rules

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Starky
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Re: Twinshock class run to no-stop rules

Postby Starky » Wed Apr 15, 2009 9:30 pm

Interesting debate so far, a little heated and some passionate opinions.

I am lucky in this respect that I get front row seats/invitations for Brooweena and get to participate in setting the sections.

I would love to have more twinshock events close to home in Maryborough because I have difficulty getting away overnight as we have to many animals to look after.

I would be happy to talk with my group to set up another trial on the other property we have access too at Brooweena. If another close club could give us a twinshock, no stop event on their calendar, would that be enough to call it a series? If not would it be a start for something bigger at a later date?

Do we need rule changes or simply events to ride in that sanction our rules?

How many people would want to ride? At the moment we have about thirty riders for Brooweena each year, one official observer, lots of fun, get to talk to everyone and get to watch everyone ride, bonfire at night with entertainment supplied unconsciously by Noel. This appears to work fairly well with those numbers.

As I have limited experience in the sport I have no idea really about the numbers that would participate if we can get this going.

Wayne Stark
aka Starky


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Re: Twinshock class run to no-stop rules

Postby BOGWHEEL » Thu Apr 16, 2009 8:48 am

I think that in a lot of clubs there isn't the numbers (amount of twin shocks) to be considered worthy of having seperate sections or sections more suiting the NSR.
If only there were a following like in Spain etc. A TS only club (where do i sign) or more TS events would be fantasic.
I know there are a lot of sherpas out there - getting them to the meets is another story.
Haven't competed for a couple of seasons - bit put off by beeing either the only TS or one or two others at the meet - Has this improved at all please? (sorry to get off the topic here)



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Re: Twinshock class run to no-stop rules

Postby SQUAT 405 » Thu Apr 16, 2009 9:17 am

Mark K wrote:
John Barwick wrote:Yeah good one Mark iff you want it just put it in the sup regs and it cosher!!!!!!!!!


So is the Motorcycling Australia 2009 Manual Of Motorcycle Sport not cosher enough for you then John?

How do you interpret 23.7.1.4 and 23.7.1.5 then if its not what I just said? (Along with the scoring for no stop trials on the following page)

And please understand I was not trying to be a smartarse about that, I was trying to understand.
David Lahey wrote:Hey Mark, if you want to give it a go, the Twinshock and Classic trial at Brooweena held each July is run to no-stop rules. You would fit in perfectly.
David

And thanks David.
I didn't realise it was no stop rules, but I was already intending to make the trip up there this year anyway. It looks and sounds like way too much fun to miss.

Hi Mark Apart from my knee jerk comment below i was just agreeing with you ,,,,,,,You seemed read somthing between the line that was not intended ....!!



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Re: Twinshock class run to no-stop rules

Postby ianrogers » Thu Apr 16, 2009 12:25 pm

Close David, very close. You are obviously good at riddles and you have successfully brought me out of what was my apparent anonymity to respond.
We only have a couple of twinshocks in SQTA but are always ready to make compromises, if you get my drift. :D
My point specifically was that there exists, or at least did, in SE Qld an unaffiliated Classic Trials Club that used to hold its events at a property, that LRMTC has used, at the base of the Toowoomba range, so if there is enough groundswell of support for another parallel non stop twinshock style organisation then why not entertain the idea. There are obviously enough twinshocks out there to justify it, just look at the number WDTC get at their popular well patronised Twinshock Masters event each year. That is to say, do your own thing, set your own rules, take your future into your own hands, no arguments! Use either the affiliated or unaffiliated path, your choice, but set your own dates and just do it. They seem to do it pretty successfully at Boreweena with mono-shocks pretty much banned as far as I know.
As “Twinshock” alluded to, it is all very easy to voice your concerns in these types of forums in relative anonymity, something akin to road rage with the windows wound up and doors locked, but alas this passion is ill directed and energy wasted if no one is willing to go the next step and actually lobby the governing body for change.
We (SQTA) went down the unaffiliated path to avoid the very road blocks that a multi tiered beaurocracy brings with it because at the end of the day all we wanted was an uncomplicated way of doing what we like and the ability to refine the system for the benefit of our club members without having to get prior approval from 4 different committees and 7 different disciplines in triplicate.
Some may say that I’m not particularly qualified to comment considering my position and the fact that I haven’t straddled a twinshock since 1976 but I have and will anyway. I am all for a twinshock non stop rule change if the majority desperately want it but that is secondary to the can of worms you would be opening if you try and implement it in parallel with the current rules. My selfish reasons for this is that it will be the same small band of dedicated club officials that will be called upon, as usual, to sort out all the issues such as section setting, observer briefing, dispute resolution etc. etc. etc. that will arise, before, during and after each event as it never seems to be the people that come up with these brilliant ideas that actually wind down their windows or unlock their doors when they are really needed.
Keep it simple, keep it fun and don't be afraid to “divide and conquer”! There are enough twinshock's out there to create a specific chapter with its own dedicated rules which could add to the diversity for which we compete.


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Re: Twinshock class run to no-stop rules

Postby motostar99 » Thu Apr 16, 2009 3:25 pm

I've only skimmed through the majority of responses in this topic as there are some very big ones in there!

Glad you cleared that up John, as I was pretty sure you were agreeing with what Mark was saying too! Must've read it as a smart-ass remark, that's the problem with forums.

After letting go of my TL125 7 years ago I haven't ridden a twinshock since then, and just getting back into trials last year of course I opted for a modern bike, so not being a twinshock rider this decision doesn't really affect me, but thought I'd throw in my 2 cents like everybody else!

I have to agree with the number of points raised in regards to observers. How many events do you go to in SE QLD, and i'm talking open and interclub events where you have to mark your own card. Plenty! So in the event that clubs are able to get observers, I think that introducing a new rule specific to twinshocks is going to make things a lot harder for them. Remember that the majority of them are daughters, wives, friends that have decided to help out and half the time they are only just up to scratch with the rules, sometimes learning a few things on the go. And all of them do a great job, but do we really want to make it harder for them?

Another point that has come up is the altering of sections, and i don't imagine there would be a problem with a lot of sections, but in some cases sections set now wouldn't be suitable, which means that the teams of a few people who go out now to set sections the day before an event would have to start thinking differently as they set them as well.

When I used to ride the TL125 I wasn't able to stop because I was too small then that it would either fall on me and I couldn't pick it back up, or I just didn't have the skills to do it. I think riding twinshocks with no-stop would be great for the twinshock guys and enable them to compete like it used to be, but I think it is the preparation, and the people that make the event happen that are affected more.

Just my opinion. And everyone knows who I am!

Nic 8)


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Re: Twinshock class run to no-stop rules

Postby SQUAT 405 » Thu Apr 16, 2009 5:51 pm

motostar99 wrote:I've only skimmed through the majority of responses in this topic as there are some very big ones in there!

Glad you cleared that up John, as I was pretty sure you were agreeing with what Mark was saying too! Must've read it as a smart-ass remark, that's the problem with forums.

After letting go of my TL125 7 years ago I haven't ridden a twinshock since then, and just getting back into trials last year of course I opted for a modern bike, so not being a twinshock rider this decision doesn't really affect me, but thought I'd throw in my 2 cents like everybody else!

I have to agree with the number of points raised in regards to observers. How many events do you go to in SE QLD, and i'm talking open and interclub events where you have to mark your own card. Plenty! So in the event that clubs are able to get observers, I think that introducing a new rule specific to twinshocks is going to make things a lot harder for them. Remember that the majority of them are daughters, wives, friends that have decided to help out and half the time they are only just up to scratch with the rules, sometimes learning a few things on the go. And all of them do a great job, but do we really want to make it harder for them?

Another point that has come up is the altering of sections, and i don't imagine there would be a problem with a lot of sections, but in some cases sections set now wouldn't be suitable, which means that the teams of a few people who go out now to set sections the day before an event would have to start thinking differently as they set them as well.

When I used to ride the TL125 I wasn't able to stop because I was too small then that it would either fall on me and I couldn't pick it back up, or I just didn't have the skills to do it. I think riding twinshocks with no-stop would be great for the twinshock guys and enable them to compete like it used to be, but I think it is the preparation, and the people that make the event happen that are affected more.

Just my opinion. And everyone knows who I am!

Nic 8)

Hi Nic I was getting a bit worried about that ,and yes forums can be very one dimensional,so thanks for you support + you are spot on with your two cents worth.....As you know i like to keep it all as simple as,so 1 looking after our observers and 2 setting of sections to suit is most important to me to ensure a good day allround,,,,as 95% of the twinshock riders are riding division 5 or clubman it cant be that hard to accommodate both types in that area with sensible type sections that can be riden non stop iff needed but scored with the same rules as our observers are used to,,,,,,,,,,,,



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Re: Twinshock class run to no-stop rules

Postby Twinshock » Thu Apr 16, 2009 8:07 pm

By the look of the number of responses above I am running about half a lap behind,so think where I would have been if I'd been balancing and hopping,which raises the point of introducing the 90 second rule for those who wish to hop and skip on a T/S and believe me thats where it will stretch out to eventually. ha ha !!

Diddly401 got it right when he suggested to go out and make it happen as we have in SQTA. Is there enough support to start the SQTA, Twinshock Chapter (Unaffiliated) or the Qld Twinshockers (Affiliated) ?

Whichever way, if all this talk fades away and nobody takes the bull by the horns as suggested, things won't change, but I sense there is strong support for the Twinshock/Classic movement but will anything change ?
It was queried further up the list if there are the numbers to put on more T/S, Classic only events, one way or another I would be there every time but could we consider air cooled mono's as well, what a day that would be with 30/40 bikes around 25 plus years old running around a hillside .
Anyone willing to put numbers together ?????
Roger G
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Re: Twinshock class run to no-stop rules

Postby shaunb » Thu Apr 16, 2009 10:07 pm

A view from outside the square – 2 cents worth from someone looking to get into riding Twin Shocks.

This topic has been an interesting read and it shows at the least that people do think long and hard about all aspects of the sport.

I think I am like a lot of prospective twin shock competitors in that I used to ride bikes quite a few years ago and would like to get back into it on the bikes that I always admired. “Olla Bultaco!”

I have been along to a few local SE Queensland club trials and looking at the clubman lines in the sections, I reckon I would have a go at about half them and “take a 5” on the rest. Obviously the sections are aimed at reasonably competent riders on modern mono bikes.

No problems there, at the trials I was at everyone was on a modern bike and there was not actually anyone on a twinshock bike (although the organisers I spoke to confirmed you can enter a twin shock and then ride the clubman or novice lines – I admit to not knowing if there is a difference in those 2).

However it does appear to me that if we want people to bring these bikes out and have a go on them you need to cater for them.

I personally think the no stop rule is a no brainer. The bikes should be ridden in the spirit of the era and stopping and then jumping around like a loon is not what the Paices, the Andrews or indeed the Millers of this world ever did.

I understand some of the comments made here along the lines that the events and organisation is aimed at the moderns and to have 2 sets of rules for the different eras would be confusing for the observers (although if they can count to 5 surely they can count to 2!....but I digress….)

I think more of an issue however is that the sections need to better suit the older bikes and the only way to do that is organise more dedicated twin shock events. I remember going to club trials in Victoria as a kid in the mid seventies when my Dad followed the sport and the sections were really varied, long climbs up greasy hillsides with a few logs thrown in, sandy stream crossings and a blast up the opposite creek bank…that sort of thing. It appears that to challenge a modern bike what you need are rocks, lots of big rocks…..

I am sure there are riders out there that on a twin shock can have a go at most sections the moderns do, but it occurs to me that this part of the sport (twin shock trials) is made up of, in the main, more mature (older?) riders of varying skill who are in this to have fun and not risk breaking their neck.

I don’t think it is up to the clubs that cater for modern bikes to cater for the older bikes, I actually think it is up to the supporters of these older bikes to stand up and run our own events.

Maybe they would not start out real big, but once people could see they had somewhere to have a ride on their restored bikes and compete on a more level playing field (and I mean that literally, rocks the size of Mack trucks DO NOT do it for me) , more of these older bikes and riders would be dragged out of the sheds of Australia.

Anyway, food for thought from a newby.

If anyone has a half decent bike for sale at present I am in the market.

Hope to see you out there, I’ll be the dude in the t shirt that says...“Real men don’t stop”

Cheers

Shaun B



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Re: Twinshock class run to no-stop rules

Postby Starky » Fri Apr 17, 2009 7:31 am

"REAL MEN DON'T STOP"

Shaun, I love it. Get it printed, I will buy a T Shirt.


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Re: Twinshock class run to no-stop rules

Postby sharvie » Fri Apr 17, 2009 7:35 am

Having looked at other posts I should clear up that the club I have been ridding in over the past 18 months is the Denman Motorcycle Club (my comments are not on their behalf) who run twinshock only trials events. The organisers set sections only intended for twinshock with grades clubman, C, C+, B, A and expert, as well as juniors.

Everything can be ridden without stopping or hopping except the occasional A and expert line. The club is in a unique position having enough ridders to run 10 twinshock only trials each year. I personally dont want the rules change to no-stop as I enjoy the challenge of lines that will occasionally require you to hop or stop. Ridders at Denman have the opportunity to ride clubman, C, C+ and B grade that will not require any stopping or hopping if the choose.

Running moderns & twinshock together I take it gives twinshock ridders far less options than what is available at Denman. In that case I understand why some would want the rules changed.

I guess Denman is in its own bubble and I love it.

Regards

Steven Harvie


Sharvie ~ Maitland NSW


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