Basket Cases

Need help finding information or parts for that old machine in your shed? Someone in here will know!

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David Lahey
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Re: Custard Tart

Postby David Lahey » Thu Jul 16, 2020 5:19 pm

Greg Harding wrote:Hi Everyone,
David, that is Dave and Emma Harris who always rode together and I can remember talking to them about their bikes, they lived in Tweed Heads/ Murwillumbah area. You may have found Whitehillbillies :suzuki ?

Yes Greg and I had the idea that they had a motorcycle shop. I also remember buying some new TY spoke sets from Emma a while after they stopped riding.


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SQUAT 405
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Re: Basket Cases

Postby SQUAT 405 » Thu Jul 16, 2020 7:43 pm

Greg thanks youve got it 8),,,,, bahhhhhhh thats a classic ,,,,, :D



JC1
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Re: Basket Cases

Postby JC1 » Sat Jul 18, 2020 5:19 pm

David Lahey wrote:I haven't found a photo of any custard tarts yet but did stumble across this interesting looking :suzuki .
Photo taken at the 2008 Qld Titles


That RL looks quite nice in orange and black. Nice wrap-around bash plate too.

Brent, you mentioned (in another thread) about modifying RLs in NZ back in the day. My cousin's husband rode a lot of trials there. When I was last there in 2009 he showed me his modified RL which was like this one.
Frame modified.jpg
Frame modified.jpg (158.71 KiB) Viewed 2247 times

This is not his but he said it was common to mod them that way in NZ "like the Mk1 Beamishes" - just remove the backbone tube below the top rear engine mount then move the swingarm forward. I thought at the time that it only solves one of the RL's shortcomings (reducing the long wheelbase) but potentially exacerbates others. (And I still think that.) He seemed to think it worked pretty well.

Did you have any experience with RLs modified that way in NZ?


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brent j
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Re: Basket Cases

Postby brent j » Sun Jul 19, 2020 8:03 pm

JC1 wrote:
David Lahey wrote:I haven't found a photo of any custard tarts yet but did stumble across this interesting looking :suzuki .
Photo taken at the 2008 Qld Titles


That RL looks quite nice in orange and black. Nice wrap-around bash plate too.

Brent, you mentioned (in another thread) about modifying RLs in NZ back in the day. My cousin's husband, Alister Thompson from Taranaki region rode a lot of trials there. When I was last there in 2009 he showed me his modified RL which was like this one.
Frame modified.jpg

This is not his but he said it was common to mod them that way in NZ "like the Mk1 Beamishes" - just remove the backbone tube below the top rear engine mount then move the swingarm forward. I thought at the time that it only solves one of the RL's shortcomings (reducing the long wheelbase) but potentially exacerbates others. (And I still think that.) He seemed to think it worked pretty well.

Did you have any experience with RLs modified that way in NZ?


We never did that mod but I can see the sense in it although they needed a longer swingarm.

My mate wanted more ground clearance so I made new front and top engine mounts that lifted the motor 25mm. Can't remember how I changed the lower rear mounts and we removed the frame tubes under the motor and made a bashplate. He was a very good rider but had no mechanical aptitude and said he liked the top heavy feel.



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Re: Basket Cases

Postby brent j » Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:27 am

brent j wrote:
JC1 wrote:
David Lahey wrote:I haven't found a photo of any custard tarts yet but did stumble across this interesting looking :suzuki .
Photo taken at the 2008 Qld Titles


That RL looks quite nice in orange and black. Nice wrap-around bash plate too.

Brent, you mentioned (in another thread) about modifying RLs in NZ back in the day. My cousin's husband, Alister Thompson from Taranaki region rode a lot of trials there. When I was last there in 2009 he showed me his modified RL which was like this one.
Frame modified.jpg

This is not his but he said it was common to mod them that way in NZ "like the Mk1 Beamishes" - just remove the backbone tube below the top rear engine mount then move the swingarm forward. I thought at the time that it only solves one of the RL's shortcomings (reducing the long wheelbase) but potentially exacerbates others. (And I still think that.) He seemed to think it worked pretty well.

Did you have any experience with RLs modified that way in NZ?


We never did that mod but I can see the sense in it although they needed a longer swingarm.

My mate wanted more ground clearance so I made new front and top engine mounts that lifted the motor 25mm. Can't remember how I changed the lower rear mounts and we removed the frame tubes under the motor and made a bashplate. He was a very good rider but had no mechanical aptitude and said he liked the top heavy feel. The other addition was a fillet in between the gussets where the frame always broke. I 'm sure I did both sides after repairing the tube.



David Lahey
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Re: Basket Cases

Postby David Lahey » Mon Jul 20, 2020 6:47 am

TerrY wrote:Reading about CUSTARD TART, I recall another Custard Tart which was a TY I think and ridden often by MR. So there must have been more than 1 Custard Tart. I don't remember the Honda one ridden by JB.
Would some one with a better memory please explain???? Was there a batch of Custard Tart paint that fell off the back of a truck and circulated around the southern Qld trials community???
I await an explanation.
Cheers,
TerrY

Terry is this the custard tart you were thinking of?
Attachments
Mark Reed RL250.JPG
Mark Reed RL250.JPG (245.66 KiB) Viewed 2164 times
Mark Reed RL250 2.JPG
Mark Reed RL250 2.JPG (245.64 KiB) Viewed 2164 times


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Re: Basket Cases

Postby Grassy » Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:05 am

I was given the opportunity to swap bikes with Greg TL-climax yesterday at the end of the trial.. The brakes not only worked, they were perfect.

So please Greg, and all you other regular contributors to this epic thread, help a novice out and spill the beans on the secrets =D>

Cheers,

Jeremy



David Lahey
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Re: Basket Cases

Postby David Lahey » Mon Jul 20, 2020 11:47 am

Grassy wrote:I was given the opportunity to swap bikes with Greg TL-climax yesterday at the end of the trial.. The brakes not only worked, they were perfect.

So please Greg, and all you other regular contributors to this epic thread, help a novice out and spill the beans on the secrets =D>

Cheers,

Jeremy

I witnessed your surprise regarding the working brakes on Greg's TLahhhh yesterday. I don't know what's wrong with yours but the usual causes for weak drum brakes on trials bikes are:
Lining radius not matching drum radius.
Lining material choice not ideal.
Drum surface not flat.
Rarer causes include:
Shoes not centered.
Play in wheel bearings.
Contaminated linings.
Cable drag.

You may be surprised to know how many of the people you rode with on the weekend were riding bikes that had drum brakes prepared to maximise performance. The usual method for worn drums is to machine the drum surface flat again. Then the shoes are relined with thick brake material that is then machined down so that the radii of drum and lining match. The lining material chosen is important too and modern non-asbestos lining material is available with fabulous friction properties.


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Re: Basket Cases

Postby TerrY » Mon Jul 20, 2020 7:16 pm

David,
Regarding "Custard Tart", I don't think that that bike was "Custard Tart". I think it may have been a TY and the yellow was all over the bike and it was not a very nice look. I hope some others can remember the bike I am thinking of.



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Greg Harding
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TLAhhhhhh 200 with brakes

Postby Greg Harding » Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:36 pm

Hi Everyone,
David Lahey wrote:
Grassy wrote:I was given the opportunity to swap bikes with Greg TL-climax yesterday at the end of the trial.. The brakes not only worked, they were perfect.

So please Greg, and all you other regular contributors to this epic thread, help a novice out and spill the beans on the secrets =D>

Cheers,

Jeremy

I witnessed your surprise regarding the working brakes on Greg's TLahhhh yesterday. I don't know what's wrong with yours but the usual causes for weak drum brakes on trials bikes are:
Lining radius not matching drum radius.
Lining material choice not ideal.
Drum surface not flat.
Rarer causes include:
Shoes not centered.
Play in wheel bearings.
Contaminated linings.
Cable drag.

You may be surprised to know how many of the people you rode with on the weekend were riding bikes that had drum brakes prepared to maximise performance. The usual method for worn drums is to machine the drum surface flat again. Then the shoes are relined with thick brake material that is then machined down so that the radii of drum and lining match. The lining material chosen is important too and modern non-asbestos lining material is available with fabulous friction properties.

Thankyou Jeremy for the ride on your :Honda: TLR 200, it is always good to compare bikes and yours is a very nice example! TL-climax :shock: :lol: :lol: :lol:
OK, so I will try and answer yours and David's questions. David, Jeremy's 200 has TLR 250 wheels fitted and the brakes were a bit lacking. The rear pedal had quite good feel so I don't think the shoes were not centered or mismatched in diameters and likewise the bearings did not feel loose riding the bike. There was no pulsing so I am pretty sure the drums were round and my most likely conclusion without pulling them apart is contaminated linings, some photos of the inside would help here Jeremy?

The front was pretty much the same in feel but the feel was slightly springy and I didn't have a close look at the cable (riding over rocks) but I suspect it was a 2.0 mm cable. Again if you could measure this Jeremy, 2.5 mm cable has less stretch in the inner and less compression of the outer giving a more direct feel and better feedback. Avoid buying a 2.0 mm front brake cable especially the ones designed to go over the headlight as they add an unnecessary extra bend robbing you of feedback. The front was more effective than the rear and likewise photos disassembled would help? My assumption is the same as the back, most likely contaminated but there could be a dusting of debris working like little marbles or maybe beans in this case inside the drums?
As for the
TLAhhhhhhhhhhhh
Basically the brakes are off bikes designed to go faster and therefore have more effective brakes. A mate of mine is always wheeling and dealing in bike parts and we have done some weird and wonderful swaps, I always like going to his place to check out the latest scores and he is always keen to come to my place. Sometimes he will even detour to my place before going home just to show me what he has picked up and is always keen to swap for any of my bargaining chips. The negotiations are the best part as we both always want win win! Anyway he is a :Honda: nut and most of the components except stainless steel spokes and TL 125 rear rim came from him in dribs and drabs. They are all :Honda: parts and I am hoping some :Honda: fans can help identify them for me?

As for brake shoes, I just use off the shelf EBC grooved shoes at about $30.00 a pair from our local :Honda: dealer. As David said, there are all sorts of different lining materials available but when you can get effective brakes for $60.00 and a little effort, I have not felt the need.

Here are some more photos starting with the controversial log jam shot next to the Orara River :
1595241396934.jpg
1595241396934.jpg (147.84 KiB) Viewed 2081 times

This one has the TLR 200 front brake arm as I was waiting for the TLR 250/TLM 200 front arm to turn up that was fitted just before the weekend:
1595241445433.jpg
1595241445433.jpg (231.18 KiB) Viewed 2081 times


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