Basket Cases

Need help finding information or parts for that old machine in your shed? Someone in here will know!

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David Lahey
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Re: Basket Cases

Postby David Lahey » Wed Aug 12, 2020 7:54 pm

Twinshock200 wrote:Hi Folks
Can I ask the experience of anyone who has respoked a trials wheel one spoke at a time.

Is it a no no or can it be achieved successfuly one at a time.
I know the fundementals of how it works but never attempted it.
Any advice would be appreciated.
Cheers

Lots of ifs coming up Roger.
When I was a kid, I replaced individual broken "outside" spokes but was stumped by the "inside" spokes. I still have the rest of the packet of spokes I bought from Suzuki in about 1975 to get the spokes I needed for my TS185 rear wheel.

If the rest of the spokes are left tensioned, then fitting a new "outer" spoke on a hub like a :yamaha TY hub is possible but requires springing the spoke into a curve to get it short enough to go through the rim hole, which is pretty easy. Fitting a new "inner" spoke however requires putting a couple of bends in the spoke to get it in place then straightening it up again. The task would be easier if all the spokes were backed right off but the "inside" spokes would still need to be bent and straightened, just to a lesser degree.

If the hub in question has a clever special flange (like some :Bultaco: rear wheels) you can change inner and outer spokes individually on that side of the wheel without any bending or curving required.
Here's a photo showing one of those special flanges.
20200812_194358.jpg
20200812_194358.jpg (1.05 MiB) Viewed 2056 times


So to answer your question, yes it is possible to respoke a motorbike wheel one spoke at a time, provided you don't mind how dodgy the spokes look afterwards.


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Phil 850
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Re: Basket Cases

Postby Phil 850 » Wed Aug 12, 2020 8:27 pm

I took a photo of the wheel first.
Pulled it apart.
Replaced the hub
Laid the rim over the top and fitted the spokes to the rim. :D

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=10267&start=90



David Lahey
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Re: Basket Cases

Postby David Lahey » Wed Aug 12, 2020 8:45 pm

Phil 850 wrote:I took a photo of the wheel first.
Pulled it apart.
Replaced the hub
Laid the rim over the top and fitted the spokes to the rim. :D

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=10267&start=90

That is the sensible way to do it 8)


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Re: Basket Cases

Postby whitehillbilly » Thu Aug 13, 2020 6:48 am

I re spoked my Greeves wheels, many years ago, after the local bike shop at the time did a terrible job,
The spoke sets and alloy rims, came from a member of Greeves owners Club, who probably built mine in the factory.
I was swapping from steel to alloy rims. He supplied the correct lacing pattern.
Don Smith was running alloy rims on his Works bike in 1960.
Bike shop had them curving over each other.
I used the front forks as the front wheel jig. Swing arm for the rear.
Broke a spoke on the Fantic Section. Only way to get it out was to cut it. I wouldn't have got a new one in even with bending.
I left it in place, after I found a extended nipple at the current bike shop.
looked good cosmetically.

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Bultaco wheel rebuild continued

Postby David Lahey » Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:58 pm

Today I collected these hubs and rim from the vapour blasters. One hub and the rim is for a replacement wheel on my :Bultaco: model 49 Sherpa T and the other front hub is for my :Bultaco: model 85 Alpina front wheel. The brake drums have already been machined. I have the new spokes and bearings ready to go.

The finned sections of the hubs have been dry blasted to help with paint adhesion and the rest of the hubs and the rim are vapour blast finish and it is going to be left bare.

20200813_181040.jpg
20200813_181040.jpg (1.17 MiB) Viewed 1973 times


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Re: RL gussets at swingarm pivot

Postby JC1 » Wed Aug 19, 2020 9:13 am

David Lahey wrote:
JC1 wrote:
RL gusset.jpg
RL gusset.jpg (60.78 KiB) Viewed 1855 times


Now that's a gusset!

Seems to be the bike Beamish entered in the SSDT in '76
(Taken from Beamish's personal collection on the Beamish site)

Looks remarkably like what comes standard on a Bultaco. They really should have made a closer copy of the Sherpa T


At the risk of being fixated on RL's, there's a bit of a story to these gussets and some interesting 'fixes'.

First, the Bultaco gusset that Dave mentioned, that you could almost call elegant by comparison
Sherpa gusset.jpg
Sherpa gusset.jpg (1.83 MiB) Viewed 1855 times


Then the first batch of RLs that only had one short gusset
Suzuki_Cycle_28_front  73.jpg
Suzuki_Cycle_28_front 73.jpg (119.99 KiB) Viewed 1855 times

Suzuki_Cycle_29_RL_intro_in_Japan.jpg
Suzuki_Cycle_29_RL_intro_in_Japan.jpg (73.2 KiB) Viewed 1855 times

SuzukiRL250a, Eurospares.jpg
SuzukiRL250a, Eurospares.jpg (71.39 KiB) Viewed 1855 times



Another couple of variations on the theme. Some modified subtly

RL250, note gusset.JPG
RL250, note gusset.JPG (443.13 KiB) Viewed 1855 times


Others less subtly
Frame modified.jpg
Frame modified.jpg (158.71 KiB) Viewed 1855 times


And some not subtly, but interesting
Suz RL250 mod s'arm pivot and backbone.jpg
Suz RL250 mod s'arm pivot and backbone.jpg (256.69 KiB) Viewed 1855 times


And finally, quite a neat fix
RL Repair1-13b.jpg
RL Repair1-13b.jpg (146.39 KiB) Viewed 1855 times


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Re: RL alternative 'fixes'

Postby JC1 » Fri Aug 21, 2020 8:25 am

Hmm, what were they thinking? Wheelbase too long, trail too short - I know an easy fix!
RL reversed forks LHS.jpg
RL reversed forks LHS.jpg (79.71 KiB) Viewed 1769 times



Why not just put the Suz engine in a Sherpa frame?
Sherpa-RL hybrid, Miller framed.jpg
Sherpa-RL hybrid, Miller framed.jpg (187.33 KiB) Viewed 1769 times



Or build your own.
Suzuki RLM 250 special Hi resol'n.JPG
Suzuki RLM 250 special Hi resol'n.JPG (1.25 MiB) Viewed 1769 times

Nice job.


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Re: Basket Cases

Postby David Lahey » Sat Aug 22, 2020 8:10 am

Those :suzuki photos are great to see JC1. The one with the SM frame and blue slimline tank is especially inspiring. Do you know if the mystery surrounding its creation has been resolved?
I've finally decided how to manage the engine cover removal issue on the RL prototype replica I'm building. I didn't want to use a flat plate under the motor like the SM frame because none of the RL prototypes had them so I'm going to replace the :Bultaco: model 80 bottom frame rails with similar tubing but run slightly differently to fit the Suzuki motor properly. With the :suzuki motor in the ideal spot, the original :Bultaco: frame rails prevent removal of the clutch cover.
I'm not using the model 80 I got from you for this. I'm using a bare frame I picked up at about the same time


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Re: Basket Cases

Postby JC1 » Sun Aug 23, 2020 8:46 am

I'd actually forgotten about that project of yours David. It will be very interesting. I haven't heard anymore about the mystery of that blue one subsequent to when we discussed it a few years ago. I seem to recall the owner contacted Miller but he knew nothing about it. I also seem to recall the engine was stamped TS250 - 00001 and that it was located in US or Canada.

You've probably seen the other pics of that bike but I'll post them anyway
suz1.jpg
suz1.jpg (372.56 KiB) Viewed 1668 times


Hmm, the other couple I have won't post so I'll email them

Nice work on the Bul hubs too Dave.


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More for the Suzuki and Bultaco lovers

Postby David Lahey » Sun Aug 23, 2020 9:41 pm

Thanks JC1.
I'm pretty keen on this old and mysterious :suzuki :Bultaco: metisse so here are more photos courtesy of JC1 for everyone to ponder over.
Attachments
Suz 3.jpg
Suz 3.jpg (82.95 KiB) Viewed 1626 times
Suz 4.jpg
Suz 4.jpg (233.95 KiB) Viewed 1626 times


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