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Re: Basket Cases

Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 4:58 pm
by David Lahey
I was just reading the latest "Aeromodeller" magazine and came across something that might help Greg with his Italjet fuel tank woes.
It seems that suitable lightweight fuel tanks can be made from wood, and are compatible with the strange fuel brews that people use in model aircraft engines so should be no problem with unleaded 98.
All we need now is a craftsperson who can make nice-looking motorbike fuel tanks from wood :shock: :wink:

Re: Basket Cases

Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2018 5:44 pm
by Jools
Well I (many of us I'm sure) could make one of those standing on our pointy little heads (See link)
http://www.whittakerdesign.com.au/guitars

Wood? Fuel? --- I'd say the Aeromodeller feller would have been coating the inside of his tank with COPIOUS AMOUNTS of epoxy resin!!!
Either that, or it's an April fools joke !
Most RC model engines use a fairly 'hot' ethanol mix, but I've never seen one with anything other than a plastic tank.
Perhaps if the wood (the right wood?) was thoroughly soaked and seasoned with the nasty oily ethanol mix fuel it might work, but WTF would you bother? Horrible greasy crap.

Thing is that if you were going to go to the trouble of making a wooden tank, you'd be FAR better off making a 'plug' from which you then make a fibreglass mould, and then you could mould DOZENS of 'orrible tanks for the 'orrible ol' Italjet. But with the right resin, (epoxy or better Vinyl Ester) ethanol is no problem.
:P
-Jools
(Yes I had one back in the day).

Re: Basket Cases

Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:54 am
by David Lahey
Jools wrote:Most RC model engines use a fairly 'hot' ethanol mix, but I've never seen one with anything other than a plastic tank.


Jools maybe free your mind from the shackles of those two letters (R and C) and think of "aeromodelling" in all its bizarre inventions and adaptations and you will find that fuel tanks have been very successfully made in many more materials than plastic and that "fuel" similarly encompasses a vast array of materials, not just the garden variety methanol/nitro/oil mix.
In the fields of aeromodelling I prefer, steel is very popular for fuel tanks and for some models that require a guaranteed uninterrupted fuel supply to the engine no matter what is happening to the plane at the time, a rubber baby pacifier is the most popular choice.
I introduced the subject of wooden fuel tanks because I feel it is relevant to the ongoing and interesting thread about rejuvenating the plastic tanks of 1980s trials bikes.

Re: Basket Cases

Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 12:38 pm
by Jools
Interesting David, -what sort of wood would have been used, and how was it sealed?
(FF? CL? or what's your 'thing'?)
But to be realistic, surely if you were putting the work into making a wooden tank, you'd just put the work into a wooden Plug that can then be used to make a mould and then make lots of tanks?
And I can't see any species of wood being strong enough for a trials bike tank anyway can you?

(Har, when I "free (my) mind of the shackles..." it means only one thing... another aircraft has a sudden unscheduled landing. :lol: )

Re: Basket Cases

Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:50 pm
by David Lahey
Jools wrote:Interesting David, -what sort of wood would have been used, and how was it sealed?
(FF? CL? or what's your 'thing'?)
But to be realistic, surely if you were putting the work into making a wooden tank, you'd just put the work into a wooden Plug that can then be used to make a mould and then make lots of tanks?
And I can't see any species of wood being strong enough for a trials bike tank anyway can you?

(Har, when I "free (my) mind of the shackles..." it means only one thing... another aircraft has a sudden unscheduled landing. :lol: )

Yes FF and C/L, but when did this topic about cracked plastic fuel tanks become realistic?

Tank Tank 5 Week Sneak Peek

Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 8:15 pm
by Greg Harding
Hi Everyone,
Bully fanatic wrote:Would the dodgy bit be the extra small fuel tank in the corner of the stainless petrol tank holding tank? Top left. Very sneaky Greg. Having a mini :italjet: Piuma and not telling us. =D>

So that was TOO many clues for an :italjet: Fanatic! Now I have to think of another.........

While we are on your favorite Marque Graham, do you remember what size pilot jet is in the RED :italjet: ? My 350 Piuma has a 55 and the 250 Piuma carby I have here is 55 as well and I think it might need to go Bigger? Let me explain as it has been a couple of months since I have ridden it and it has always had a hot start problem. Cold starts beautifully and when I get as far away as possible from my starting point, it stalls at random and won't restart usually at the bottom of a hill. David and I discussed this month's ago and his suggestion of richening the idle mixture did help but the side effect was longer rides between breakdowns.

Maybe I was approaching the problem the wrong way but inside the magneto cover was a ever so slightly oily but I could not feel any free play in the mains. So I sourced some crank seals and fitted the magneto side one with the intention of riding it again and check smoke color when hot. The seal that came out had a blue tint and was quite thin compared to the new one. Put it all back together and it fired up nicely, warmed it up and then stopped it and restarted fine so good, ride Time! All was going swimmingly and I was really enjoying riding it until the greatest distance from the start point at the bottom of a gully and you guessed it. This was the point where I thought a spare plug and spanner would be a good idea! Anyway after pushing it up the hill and some choice words this website won't accept, it roll started but only at speed with the throttle open. What would a ride be without repeating this process a couple of Times? So I am 50/50 on riding the :italjet: at the moment, really enjoy the riding but not keen on the Pushing! Back to the idle mixture, Delorto's have the idle mixture screw at the cylinder side of the slide and yes I played with it and it seems best with the screw a fair way out but I think I am outside the usable range? Do the jets go in increments of 1, 5 or 10?
David Lahey wrote:I was just reading the latest "Aeromodeller" magazine and came across something that might help Greg with his Italjet fuel tank woes.
It seems that suitable lightweight fuel tanks can be made from wood, and are compatible with the strange fuel brews that people use in model aircraft engines so should be no problem with unleaded 98.
All we need now is a craftsperson who can make nice-looking motorbike fuel tanks from wood :shock: :wink:

David, I am not prepared to give up on the plastic tank just yet but you do have me thinking. Remember this first photo:
1523267682878.jpg
1523267682878.jpg (160.94 KiB) Viewed 3161 times

Here is the same tank after 5 weeks submerged in 98 premium:
1523264083456.jpg
1523264083456.jpg (92.71 KiB) Viewed 3161 times

Taken after allowing to air dry away from the enemy AKA the sun, so it is 100 grams or 10% heavier now.
1523264060336.jpg
1523264060336.jpg (54.4 KiB) Viewed 3161 times

Back to the thinking part David, obviously you were suggesting HARDWOOD :!:
My thoughts are what is made of wood, hollow and has a hole on the top for Filling?
Jools wrote:Interesting David, -what sort of wood would have been used, and how was it sealed?
(FF? CL? or what's your 'thing'?)
But to be realistic, surely if you were putting the work into making a wooden tank, you'd just put the work into a wooden Plug that can then be used to make a mould and then make lots of tanks?
And I can't see any species of wood being strong enough for a trials bike tank anyway can you?

Jools, I have no idea what FF? or CL? is but the wood that I have in mind is Poplar or Willow as they are readily available in hollow form. The problem is even though they come in many sizes, I don't think they are big enough unless I use a pair and even then they will need to be mounted Backwards!
1523264304361.jpg
1523264304361.jpg (28.36 KiB) Viewed 3161 times

Looks like a 3 man Job?
1523264178087.jpg
1523264178087.jpg (118.76 KiB) Viewed 3161 times

Re: Basket Cases

Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:07 pm
by Bully fanatic
Hi Greg. I think the Delorto pilot jets go up in 5s so the next size richer would be a 60. The books all say they all have a 55 in them. There is a Delorto supplier in England who are pretty good to use. Their name escapes me at the moment but I have saved a receipt so I`ll have a look tomorrow. It is worth persisting with the Piuma. In 1982 the green ones were the best thing over here. I just looked on Google and it is Eurocarb and they have a website, www.delorto.co.uk so just grab the model of the carby and look it up.

Re: Basket Cases

Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 9:27 pm
by David Lahey
Now I know that it has the standard size pilot jet, "runs fine when cold" + "starts fine when cold" + "when warmed up fully, stalls at random and won't start" + 34 years old motorbike = failing capacitor (usually)

Re: Tank Tank 5 Week Sneak Peek

Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 6:28 pm
by David Lahey
Greg Harding wrote:Hi Everyone,
David, I am not prepared to give up on the plastic tank just yet but you do have me thinking. Remember this first photo:
1523267682878.jpg

Here is the same tank after 5 weeks submerged in 98 premium:
1523264083456.jpg

Taken after allowing to air dry away from the enemy AKA the sun, so it is 100 grams or 10% heavier now.
1523264060336.jpg


I'm thinking maybe 100 grams of orange dye from the petrol has become incorporated in the plastic, which does make it look nicer, but you would be the first person I've ever heard propose that adding weight to a fuel tank was something to celebrate

Re: Basket Cases

Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2018 6:32 pm
by David Lahey
It's interesting that the dye only coloured the plastic where the UV damage was