Rules for TS and P65?

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FM350
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Rules for TS and P65?

Postby FM350 » Fri Jul 20, 2012 5:52 pm

Here in the UK we dont have any.............which means Brit powered twin-shock bikes fitted with things like Gas Gas wheels and reputedly costing £15k to build regularly get ridden in the "P65" class!

The fact that I would be able to ride a highly modified Brit twin-shock costing £15k to build at almost all UK P65 events, and an air-cooled mono converted to TS anywhere other than ACU Brit championship series trials and a few closed to club series, qualifies the fact that we have no rules to speak of in the UK.

I get the feeling that there are rules related to TS and P65 in Aus but wonder if you would prefer the same situation as we have in the UK, with complete freedom of choice to do pretty much any sort of modification, and no restrictions on riding recently built brand new machines in P65 or TS class events?

Personally I am strongly against not having rules, as this means those with money to spend automatically have an unfair advantage over those who dont, as they can afford the very latest TS or P65 machine which is far more capable than even a very highly modified original bike.

Sorry if this thread offends anyone, but I am interested in whether TS/P65 riders in Aus would prefer the UK situation, rather than having a need to comply with a set of rules which I imagine is applied to all?



brt650
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Re: Rules for TS and P65?

Postby brt650 » Fri Jul 20, 2012 7:30 pm

If I had 15k to spend on my TS , I'd replace it with 2 new mono's and then see if I could show how good I was.
Rather than beating everyone one with my Ferrari while they are in there mini's.
But that's just me.
Why do people modify there bike's from original. I just don't get it. :oops:
brt650 :D



pop
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Re: Rules for TS and P65?

Postby pop » Fri Jul 20, 2012 8:58 pm

brt650 wrote:If I had 15k to spend on my TS , I'd replace it with 2 new mono's and then see if I could show how good I was.
Rather than beating everyone one with my Ferrari while they are in there mini's.
But that's just me.
Why do people modify there bike's from original. I just don't get it. :oops:
brt650 :D

because stock standart bikes are rubbish to ride. :-&



FM350
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Re: Rules for TS and P65?

Postby FM350 » Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:56 pm

The guys who built those £15k bikes do it as a hobby, and freely admit to them not being "P65" which is kind of refreshing when you read the Scottish 2 day entry list, with many claiming brand new recently built bikes to have been manufactured before 1965...........Which in the case of 4 speed Bantams and square cylinder Cubs is kind of strange!

These 2 bikes are top notch in terms of engineering, and pretty much everything is hand made, with none of the sometimes shoddily made and very costly parts which go to make up most modern day "P65" bikes here in the UK!

As with any trials bike though, the rider still has more to do with winning events than having a much better bike, so when very capable Brit championship standard riders show up at club level events with far less sophisticated Brit twin-shocks, the result is pretty much a foregone conclusion.



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Re: Rules for TS and P65?

Postby sherpa » Fri Jul 20, 2012 11:01 pm

Has anyone seen the movie "Groundhog Day"



FM350
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Re: Rules for TS and P65?

Postby FM350 » Fri Jul 20, 2012 11:09 pm

pop wrote:
brt650 wrote:If I had 15k to spend on my TS , I'd replace it with 2 new mono's and then see if I could show how good I was.
Rather than beating everyone one with my Ferrari while they are in there mini's.
But that's just me.
Why do people modify there bike's from original. I just don't get it. :oops:
brt650 :D

because stock standart bikes are rubbish to ride. :-&


Yes stock bikes are pretty nasty to ride, and this is one reason why back in the late 70s early 80s people like John Shirt made very good money out of hacking around stock TY Yams (which had been bought for very little money), and calling them Majestys, which do perform a fair bit better than the stockers.

Original P65 bikes though are much worse than a stock TY Yam, but are still perfectly ok on easier sections of the type that would have been ridden when the bikes were new. The modern day versions of a P65 though, are comparable to something like a nicely built Fantic, so tend to result in far harder sections, which means older less competitive bikes get ridden less and less in many UK events.



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Re: Rules for TS and P65?

Postby TriCub » Sat Jul 21, 2012 11:56 am

I think you will find that most people on this forum don't realy care what happens in the UK. Altough saying that a couple of years ago the vocal minority here in Aus thought that we should adopt a couple of rules from the Scotish pre-65 rule book and after some 7 or 8 years of no one questioning the rules all of a sudden Spanish bikes are banned as is Jap and Italian carbs on pommy bikes. It was a bit like the kid next door turning up with a flashy new paint job on his tricycle then young Johny saying he didn't want to play with him anymore. Atleast it looks like the carb thing is being fixed up.

I've been involved in quite a few different classes of motor sport throught the last 30-40 years and the most successfull and long lasting have always had very clear and well writen rule books that aren't being changed every five minutes.
I for one would not be interested in competing in the UK on those super trick pre-65 machine or those hideous twin shock converted mono's.



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Re: Rules for TS and P65?

Postby FM350 » Sat Jul 21, 2012 5:26 pm

I can quite see that there is no reason whatever for trials riders in Aus to be interested in the shambles we have in the UK due to lack of any workable system of rules.

Was just wondering if anyone could see any possible advantage to running P65/TS events under the UK no rule format, in Aus or indeed anywhere else?

As to "rules" in the P65 Scottish in effect there are none, as they are enforced arbitrarily and seemingly members of the committee are unaware of the fact 4speed Bantams replete with Fantic top ends, and square cylinder Cubs with chrom moly frames and tubeless wheels, were not in fact made prior to Xmas 64, and are not in fact P65 bikes.



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Re: Rules for TS and P65?

Postby Takhli44 » Sun Jul 22, 2012 3:08 am

http://www.twinshock.org/content.aspx?p ... e_id=10801

The above link (if it is a link) should take you to ITSA, a vintage national trials org. here in the USA, where you can find their rules on equipment and the like. Our local club rules are much more simple. We also run an "A" and "B" class (novice and one class higher) in the club. Or just search itsa vintage trials.


Don't let competition get in the way of having fun.

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Re: Rules for TS and P65?

Postby FM350 » Sun Jul 22, 2012 4:47 pm

ITSA rules as I see them are well worth a good look, but as I think money is to be made by not having rules related to P65/TS trialling here in the UK, cant see any system of rules happening any time soon.




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