Where are all the entries ????

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bikerpete
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Re: Where are all the entries ????

Postby bikerpete » Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:18 pm

As someone pretty much at entry into the sport, I'll chime in with my perspective.

I rode C-Grade (badly) on a TY175C back in the mid-late 70's in SA, then took a 40 year pause for other activities. I'm now playing with an 07 TXT 250 and my son on a 05 Rookie 80, we live in North East Vic where I know of virtually no-one riding trials (I'm sure there must be a few out there, but not that I know of) and the closest club is at least 3 hours away.

I'm thinking it'd be nice to ride with and learn from others, and that my son might get more interested if he rode with others. Sooo ... I've taken a look at the 2018 Vic calendar and what we'd need to do to enter an event - MA/MV membership, Club membership, entry fees, travel to the event - it starts to become expensive fun if we only attend one or two events a year, which is realistic (most events occur over winter and snow skiing takes priority over all else for my son).

MV fees - $375
OMCC membership - $90
Entry fee - $100
Total $565 for a single event or $332 each event if we go to 2 events.
or:
"one event" licences $270
Entry fee $100
Total $370 for each event ($740 if we go to 2 events!)

That's all more than I'm ready to pay just to have a bit of a play for a weekend! End of story if that's what it costs to have a dabble. Leave the sport to those few who want to be serious about it, and spend our "sport" budget elsewhere.

I've seen some references to Recreational Licences, but can't figure out what they let me do in terms of having a play at comps.
Then I've also seen we would need to do a theory and practical test to get our MV licences - fair enough, makes sense, but from my perspective it's yet more hoops to jump through for a bit of a dabble.

Too hard basket - I'll just go riding.
Sadly I expect the end result for my son is that he'll have a bit of a play at trials then lose interest because the only person to ride trials with is his Dad, which no doubt isn't as much fun as playing with others of a more similar age.

Please don't get me wrong, I'm not criticising anyone here, everything has it's cost. It's just that it's out of our budget for a bit of fun for a few days a year. How many now frequent competitors went to their first trials for a bit of fun?
As for the original question, well here is one answer that I doubt I'm alone in coming to - too costly to have a bit of a play and see if we enjoy the comp scene.

If there is a cheaper alternative to what I've worked out, I'd love to hear about it!



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Re: Where are all the entries ????

Postby Jools » Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:45 pm

Ridiculous costs! Makes you wanna weep. And people wonder why the sport is going to die out!
I'll bet that many people like us will just get together informal social trial days. Cost = zero!
Pete I'll try to remember to invite you to ours once I get it together.
There will be NO entry fee, NO insurance, NO officious rules, Free drinks, bring your own first aid kit, plenty enjoyment!



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Re: Where are all the entries ????

Postby Twinshock200 » Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:56 pm

Deleted


Where have all the Pre 65 Classic bikes gone ?

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Re: Where are all the entries ????

Postby bikerpete » Tue Jan 02, 2018 1:23 pm

Jools that would be great to come along to a social ride. Please do let me know if it comes together. More than happy to pay to offset costs or offer support to landholders.

Galps, it sounds like SQTA have a good thing going that could be replicated elsewhere.
Perhaps a thread on how to establish a non-affiliated structure is in order? That might get a conversation between like minded people going, and from there perhaps the first steps will be made. Perhaps just one such club per state would provide a path into the sport for dabblers like myself, then if they get serious they could move into the affiliated system?

Unfortunately I'm not really in a position to be a significant contributor to such a project, but would certainly encourage others :wink:



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Re: Where are all the entries ????

Postby bikerpete » Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:52 pm

I just thought I'd add another observation on the cost to compete.

I also ride Mountain Bikes and it's interesting to compare an MTB race licence with an MV licence.
MTBA competition membership is $129 and provides:
Race any MTB event in Australia – Race members are insured to race in all mountain bike events nationwide, regardless of whether it is a MTBA sanctioned event or not. (Excludes Enduro World Series & UCI World Championship events held in Australia).
Personal Accident Insurance – 24/7 cover whenever you’re on your bike, including non-medicare medical expenses and income protection.
Public Liability Insurance – 24/7 cover whenever you’re on your bike up to a maximum of $20,000,000.
Professional Indemnity Insurance – provided to accredited coaches & officials to a maximum of $5,000,000.


They also provide a one-off 8 week free trial and a Day Licence for $30.
The insurance alone makes it a no-brainer to take out membership.
It certainly appears to offer far more value than a MV licence for $235. I can't find any thing on the MV website indicating the MV licence provides anything other than a permit to compete.

Of course MTB events frequently attract far more entrants than a moto trials event, although MTBA also covers bicycle trials, so swings and roundabouts.

EDIT: I found the info on MV's insurance - cover for participants and organisers whilst attending events only.



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Re: Where are all the entries ????

Postby Doubleblip » Wed Jan 03, 2018 11:00 pm

Hi All, I just 're-joined' the forum, so was interested to read this pretty important thread. I pretty well agree with the previous posts on the high cost to ride a few trials comp events in Vic at least. Its a shame. I too have raced in MTB events over past 6 yrs and the one day comp license is cheap, however a lot of MTB race events are certainly more expensive than a trial to enter. MTB race entries are anywhere between $60 up to $120 depending on event type and importance etc
I really think there is merit in re-visiting the facts on running what is known as a Black event, i.e with no MA competition permit I dont know all the details, but Im sure others with more knowledge can eleborate and remind everyone on the pos and neg of running black events, which Im certain have been attempted years ago.
Cost is important, but its not the main reason its very hard to attract kids and also adults to trials events. A huge amount of motorsport keen families have heaps of disposable income with double incomes - the thing is there is still a lot more promotion of MX, enduro and road racing compared to trials. Its worth mentioning that there is now quite an interest in hard enduro which never existed 15 yrs ago, as well as a large number of high profile hard enduro races across the globe which are dominated mostly by ex high level trials riders.



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Re: Where are all the entries ????

Postby The Hell Team » Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:10 pm

In regards the Insurance level covered by your MA license please see the attached bulletin that was sent out July 17.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1mQSOye-Pzy3WKtR-_GpHutr83kdzHXg_

Sorry the file is too big to post, so this is a Google Drive link to the doc from MA.


We can crate and freight bikes Australia wide for very reasonable rates. Ring or email with your location for freight quote.
The Hell Team Trials Store
02.8424.6400
0418.415.129
whoever@thehellteam.com
http://www.thehellteam.com

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Re: Where are all the entries ????

Postby Jools » Thu Jan 04, 2018 7:46 pm

Yes. Re: the MA Insurance document. - Says it all. This is THE ACTUAL problem. We are now ruled by insurance companies and the legal industry.
More fool us!

Whatever happened to the sane concept of personal responsibility and the sensible acceptance of risk as a normal everyday part of living and our participatory activity.

These days, you have to have someone else to blame, and the legal fraternity and insurance cabal have engineered this. The result is, costs inflate, and only the wealthy can participate.
We've knuckled under to this... more fool us. (Yes I know the damage is done and that I'm *issing into the wind, but it needs to be said even if it's futile).
Sad new millenium.



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Re: Where are all the entries ????

Postby bikerpete » Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:01 am

Jools, I agree that in many ways our society's reluctance to accept personal responsibility is a problem, however it's the world we live in and lets just make the best of it. Few people are going to run events without insurance (who wants to risk their house etc.?).

My comparison of MA to MTBA insurance was to give an example of how one organisation has made themselves more relevant to a broader base than just competitors, and in the process made it easier for people to compete. MTBA insurance covers riders 24/7/365 when they are riding, or even when they are doing track maintenance. If you have even an inkling that you might race, you might as well pay the annual membership and receive the insurance cover. I haven't raced MTB for the past 3 years, but I still hold MTBA membership purely for the insurance it provides. win-win.

I do wonder if the issue here is entries into events, or a shrinking base of riders? Are trials bike sales static, shrinking or growing (and that needs to include used bikes in the count).
If the number of riders isn't shrinking but event entries are, then the events themselves could be the problem - not relevant to new riders, too costly ... could be any number of reasons. Certainly the Gate trials sound to me like a good innovation - I'm guessing easier to run, and encourage riders to try different things - I reckon they sound like they could be more fun than a conventional trial.
If the number of riders is shrinking, then fiddling with event promotion, structure etc. is a waste of time. Attracting new riders, competitive or not has to be the focus.

One thing that does always mystify me a little is why we so often think things have to get bigger? It's OK to have niche activities that just tick along - they don't have to grow. As long as there are enough people to maintain a range of manufacturers and retailers what's the problem with small? Of course if the numbers are on a decline that is a problem. Getting bigger isn't always so great - with it inevitably comes more administration, more controls and often big players taking control away from the grass roots. Be careful what you wish for.

Doubleblip mentioned "motorsport keen families" - I wonder if this is actually the area most trials riders come from (I've no idea if that's the case or not). For myself I'd have to put myself firmly OUT of the "motorsport keen" category - I dislike the noise and am uncomfortable with the environmental damage motos tend to do. I'd love to have the finances to buy an e-trials bike to solve one of those issues. I somewhat suspect that this could be the case for a reasonable number of others? How many trials riders ONLY ride trials as their motorsport?
Motorsports are heavily weighted to speed events - trials certainly isn't! That suggests to me that perhaps targeting motorsport enthusiasts might not be the best tactic, as it's the speed that is the drawcard.
In my area the people I know who show the most interest in trials are actually the MTB riders, several of whom have turned out to be closet ex-trials riders like myself. Perhaps this might be a good market to try to tap into? e-trials bikes will be very attractive to this group in years to come I think.
I see a few enduro type riders who dabble in trials as "cross-training", but they seem to go hot and cold on it and the speed activity is what they keep turning back to.

I reckon if there where some e-trials bikes doing some demos at a few MTB events it might start some people thinking ...

No answers, but maybe a different perspective from those of you who have been involved and dedicated for years.




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