G'day all,
I’ve just taken the plunge into trials riding and so far, I’m really loving it. In NSW most of the clubs start up in March and I’m excited to get stuck in to it and meet some other riders.
I’m reasonably experienced with motorcycles of different varieties. I’m a little bit embarrassed to ask such a basic question but I’m having a bit of trouble with changing gears on the trials bike.
I understand that in a trial you are penalised for rolling backwards, is that correct? This leads me to my question; how do people shift gears at a standstill? I’ve watched a few videos and the pros seem to be able to do it 2 or 3 gears at a time. Does it involve a tiny slip of the clutch or something like that, which is harder to see?
On almost every bike I’ve owned, you need to roll the bike to get the gears to engage. On my 2010 Beta 290 i absolutely cannot change gears at a standstill, the bike must be rolling. Even then the gear shifts can be a bit inconsistent and I’m not confident in them yet.
Is it possible the bike has a problem or am i just naive? Or is this completely normal and i just need to look ahead and be in the right gear before i stop? Will I get penalised in a trial if its obvious I’m just rolling to shift gears?
I appreciate any input
Cheers,
Gavin
Changing Gears
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- A grade participant
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Re: Changing Gears
Good question, Gavin.
My old TY seems to find false neutrals a lot, especially between 1st and 2nd. Hang on, that would be neutral wouldn't it? Do we just stamp on the gearshift without clutch? It's strange not having the foot on the peg for gear shifts.
Peter
My old TY seems to find false neutrals a lot, especially between 1st and 2nd. Hang on, that would be neutral wouldn't it? Do we just stamp on the gearshift without clutch? It's strange not having the foot on the peg for gear shifts.
Peter
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Re: Changing Gears
As a beginner almost all sections you should stick to first gear up until your looking at C grade sections
The 3 betas I have owned have all been a bitch to select gears while stationary with the motor running.
The 3 betas I have owned have all been a bitch to select gears while stationary with the motor running.
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Re: Changing Gears
Betas can be tricky to get the clutch to completely disengage. The reason that some bikes need to be rolling to shift gears is clutch drag putting load on the drive dogs on the gears. Rolling backwards does not release the force on the gear dogs.
It is possible to shift gear at a stop with mild clutch drag (because of the geometry of the rear suspension and drive chain) by bouncing the bike up and down as you hold force on the shift lever.
Having a completely free clutch when disengaged is one of the holy grails for trials rider so if you go searching you will finds huge amounts of discussion on the subject.
You shouldn't be needing to shift gears in a section unless you are riding at a very high level.
It is possible to shift gear at a stop with mild clutch drag (because of the geometry of the rear suspension and drive chain) by bouncing the bike up and down as you hold force on the shift lever.
Having a completely free clutch when disengaged is one of the holy grails for trials rider so if you go searching you will finds huge amounts of discussion on the subject.
You shouldn't be needing to shift gears in a section unless you are riding at a very high level.
relax, nothing is under control
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- Bike: Many Twinshocks
- Club: CQTC Inc, RTC Inc
- Location: Gladstone, Queensland
Re: Changing Gears
and there is no penalty for rolling forwards for any reason
relax, nothing is under control
Re: Changing Gears
Thanks very much for all the replies.
It sounds like, at least for now, i shouldn't need to worry to much about it. I'm just trying to be as prepared as possible.
That's an interesting point about the clutch drag and it being a beta issue. I'll give the bouncing a go, to see how that works. Again though, it sounds like it wont be a problem in competition but it will be a nice skill to have while i'm playing around and practising or if i ever do find myself in a situation i do want to shift at a standstill.
Cheers again,
Gavin
It sounds like, at least for now, i shouldn't need to worry to much about it. I'm just trying to be as prepared as possible.
That's an interesting point about the clutch drag and it being a beta issue. I'll give the bouncing a go, to see how that works. Again though, it sounds like it wont be a problem in competition but it will be a nice skill to have while i'm playing around and practising or if i ever do find myself in a situation i do want to shift at a standstill.
Cheers again,
Gavin
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- B grade participant
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Re: Changing Gears
There is a fix for the Beta clutches but it takes about 5 hours of detailed painstaking manual work with primitive tools.
The two main issues seem to be the excess amount of glue used to bond the fibre to the clutch plates and the roughness of the tags that engage the clutch basket fingers.
So the excess glue has to be removed from the grooves between the fibre pads on the clutch plates by little scrapers. That is every groove on both sides of each clutch plate. Fun Fun Fun.
And smooth off all the external tags on all the plates that engage the basket fingers. Don't forget to have a little taper on each side as well. A file seems the easiest tool. Again Fun Fun Fun.
To do all that will take you 5 hours of Fun Fun Fun.
There is a major improvement but not a total fix.
Have fun.
The two main issues seem to be the excess amount of glue used to bond the fibre to the clutch plates and the roughness of the tags that engage the clutch basket fingers.
So the excess glue has to be removed from the grooves between the fibre pads on the clutch plates by little scrapers. That is every groove on both sides of each clutch plate. Fun Fun Fun.
And smooth off all the external tags on all the plates that engage the basket fingers. Don't forget to have a little taper on each side as well. A file seems the easiest tool. Again Fun Fun Fun.
To do all that will take you 5 hours of Fun Fun Fun.
There is a major improvement but not a total fix.
Have fun.
Re: Changing Gears
Thanks for that Terry,
Well so far the trials bike is requiring considerably less maintenance than my old enduro bikes. So when one of those days rolls around where i desperately want to do something with the bike but cant ride it for some reason i probably wont mind pulling out the files and having some fun of my own
Well so far the trials bike is requiring considerably less maintenance than my old enduro bikes. So when one of those days rolls around where i desperately want to do something with the bike but cant ride it for some reason i probably wont mind pulling out the files and having some fun of my own
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