keep winning then go up!!!

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keep winning then go up!

Postby gmcdesign » Fri Dec 29, 2006 10:22 am

This is an interesting subject and one which obviously has some polarised views. My personal take on it is that there are two types of rider; those that are strongly competitive and may or may not be interested in trophies and secondly those riders (often older) who enjoy the day out, a good ride on a well turned out bike and also like the social aspect of our sport.
Firstly, those who are strongly competitive will be pushing themselves and always striving to ride a higher grade. We all have to start somewhere however and these riders are always more likely to take home the trophies in whatever grade they ride in. Dropping back a grade surely holds no great kudos for these guys (or at best temporarily) as a B grade trophy always rates higher than a C grade and so on.
Those people who enjoy the sport on a less intense scale and even those recovering from injury musn't surely be expecting to take home the trophies if they have not put in the hard yards. There is also a case to say that riders dropping back give those in the lower grades an idea of the level they need to aspire to. It is highly unlikely however that an A grade rider would drop back to C grade just for a trophy? In this I believe most A graders would be bored witless by C grade and posesses the strong competitive streak that has seen him/or her achieve A grade status.
There will always be riders recovering from injury et cetera, who may languish in a lower grade for awhile, but again I believe if they are competitive at all they will aspire to higher things.
I think sections should always be set at a difficult enough level that all riders in that grade should be challenged: All riders learn more and the better riders will always win anyway. Making sections easier does not help anyone. Those riders who enjoy the day out can always find their comfort level and technically difficult does not have to be dangerous. What attracted me to this sport is that it isn't bashing around a paddock throwing dirt, but that it is difficult and challenging both mentally and physically. Please don't spend too much time worrying about who's winning what trophies and who's not doing this.
Get out there and enjoy the challenge.


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Postby austini » Sat Dec 30, 2006 11:14 am

Good reply there gmandas, whats my take on this topic:

Riders should stay in the grade that they have been competing in for the %%%% of the year, they can't come down a grade for a state round etc:

Riders who stay in a grade even though they consistantly come in the top three positions should be asked if they want to go up, if they don't maybe exclude them from the trophys not the results. As stated riders stay in a grade for many reasons: injury, looking after kids, happy in their comfort zone etc:...... I'm sure a lot of these ex A,B grade riders have boxes full of trophys that they do not want to add too.

The biggest problem with running c+ b+ sections is setting them out in conjuntion with the other grades, my solution is to set + sections utilizing the the easyest 3 or 4 sections from the grade above. Results though would not reflect this, that way up and comming riders wanting to sample the next grade and experienced riders after a bit of a challange can compete on a more even playing field with the average joe!!!!

Over here in WA trophys are few and far between that way entry fees can be kept to a minimum and winning a trophy is something that is earnt over a series of events.

Well thats my 2bobs worth..

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Postby BJ » Sat Dec 30, 2006 7:27 pm


A WA Trophy....mmm I don't have onademm!

I do have a good SA one and I did get one at Glenmaggie and a couple of runner ups fron Vic titles but that's most likely the only ones I'll see again unless I sponsor the event!

Big silver cup for---- best bearded Scorpa rider with pony tail....sounds good to me!

See, if you want trophies bad enough you can always buy one :P

Fact is I agree the few that swap grades to take home a trophy or even the win can't really be that proud of it when they look at it. I start on the blue line and just go for as many splits as I can get. If I decide the event is too tough I ride a mix of Novice and Blue or enter novice and ride for no award. Much as I appreciate the handful of trophies I have picked up (oh do I) I never want to nick one off someone that deserves it.

I don't know of many riders that bother stepping down a grade or a "+ grade" for interstate events but I could name a few. For first time riders on new ground this might be a good idea because every club and state seems to have a different idea of section setting for each class and often very differnt terrain.

But just to cover what I said before, if the step between grades at the lower level is too big and us old farts with bad knees, hips, elbows, ankles, shoulders..... but enough money to buy new bikes are getting scared off we will lose half the field if they are made to scale rocks and big steps that are better left to younger riders. Sure if we had only half the riders it would easier to run events but they would not be financial and who would the young riders learn off (or laugh at)?

I think Austini has it right when he suggested having + grade riders riding some easier next grade sections. This would mean the run of the mill riders could have a fair go while the challange was there for those that bit better. This posses the question of + Grading :!: Should we say 3 placing in the top 3 in the class and any rider that rides 3 events in a grade above goes to a + grade????

Am I stupid or does that make sense (don't answer that)

Happy New Year........

Gone over to the Dark Side for a bit!!!!

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Postby wazzawood » Thu Jan 11, 2007 11:39 pm

I was surprised when i discovered you weren't officially graded by MA in trials. like this :shock:

Ok so it's not right to have a rider continue to win his or her grade every trial, especially if a junior rider is forever getting pushed out of trophy positions by a senior rider. But it does provide a good incentive to beat that old so-and-so or ride a grade higher.

The trials I have been to and the Canberra Club don't really have a bad problem here, i can't speak for other clubs.

If you're printing trophies with names before the trial then maybe an enforced promotion is worth thinking about...

I'm comfy on the fence here.

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Postby CRAFTY » Sat Jan 13, 2007 8:13 pm

I think a big contributor to the problem is, that section setters feel that because we are setting a state round or open, it needs to be harder than a club day. If we lose this mentality and set at the same level year round, riders won't turn up to an open and go Oh F%#K this is too hard I better go back a grade. Also we need to set sections from clubman and go up from there to decrease the gaps between grades, NOT start from expert and work down. Again these are only my thoughts. I only play for fun, not sheepstations. Crafty

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Postby Basket case » Fri Jun 22, 2007 3:14 pm

Trials in Australia is too small a community to get into too much bitching about people who stay in their grade too long, or who drop a grade for state titles. There's good points made on both sides. Its a good conversation to have, and maybe those who feel they might be in either of those groups will have a think about it as a result. However that might not mean they need to change. Now how's that for fence sitting?

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Postby Nicko_121 » Sat Jun 30, 2007 10:51 am

There are so many c grade riders why dont they have a class
e.g that ride b grade lines but aren't in bgrade(B-)
or for clubman to c grade that there is (c-)
so Riders can challenge themselves on harder lines even when not totally up to the next step. This may just give people the confidence that they can actually compete in a higher grade. :P

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Would the "Open Free" Scoring Help?

Postby richardr » Mon Jul 02, 2007 2:47 pm

I have just been reading elswhere on the website about the "open free" style of scoring that is becoming rapidly more popular in Europe.

Would this kind of scoring be the answer - or part of the answer? After all, it would allow for an almost infinate number of variations for riding the sections and to provide each rider with a challenge.

Any thoughts on trialling (forgive the pun) this scoring in Australia?

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Postby seiko » Mon Jul 02, 2007 7:00 pm

Yeah that way I can go around the log...... teehee

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Postby Gary B » Wed Jul 04, 2007 8:41 pm

I know this topic started out about "Club Days" but looks like its become a good general talking point.
Back in the good old days when everybody rode a Mono Yamaha & it wasn't uncommon to be half way through a section & realise you were on someone else's bike, NSW had a grading system for Open trials.
Get a place in 'Clubman' & go to "C" grade; Two wins in "C" grade go to "B" grade; 3 wins in "B" grade go to "A" grade. It wasn't unusual to see the better riders in each grade hang around the score tent with a lap to go to check on the scores & then these guys would maybe drop a 5 so they wouldn't win & get "Pushed Up" a grade.
This problem has been around as long as I can remember & I've been riding Trials for 32 years.
Pacific Park club is going to do an Club day "Open Free Trial" on July 22nd.
I hope this event takes off as it puts the onus back on the rider to do what they feel they are capable of & maybe it could just be the way of the future.

Looking forward to it.

Gary B. from Wollongong MCC.
Now the Old Man in "Team Boniface"

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