Australian Champion V’s European Australian Champion

Want to say something about trials? Let the world know in here!

Moderator: Moderators

Should European Riders be eligible to win the Australian Championship

Poll ended at Fri Oct 12, 2007 8:22 pm

Yes
24
62%
No
15
38%
 
Total votes: 39

splint
Junior participant
Junior participant
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2004 4:22 pm
Location: Melb, Vic

Postby splint » Thu Aug 16, 2007 5:29 pm

This has just jogged my memory of the recent A4DE held at Coff's Harbour(?). For the last couple of years the Australian 4 Day Enduro has attracted some of the biggest names in World Enduro and the American GNCC competitions. These international guys are only allowed to race for Outright Honours and are not considered in the class placings like 'over 250cc two-stroke' for example. While I'm not to sure how the Aust Trials Champs are setup class wise, maybe something similar could be adapted??



Warren Laugesen
Junior participant
Junior participant
Posts: 11
Joined: Sun Jan 21, 2007 7:09 pm
Location: New Zealand

Postby Warren Laugesen » Thu Aug 16, 2007 5:52 pm

Heres another thought, why dont you restrict them to a 125cc bike only?
This would only slightly close the us and them gap but they would still clean up convincingly, but it would make for a great spectacle and stories.



Promo
Junior participant
Junior participant
Posts: 10
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2007 11:55 am

Postby Promo » Thu Aug 16, 2007 6:08 pm

Devastation in 2005? I have been involved in various sport promotions and I know what Australias top trials riders were feeling post the Australian championships. Most of you couldn’t imagine how the Australian riders would have felt telling their sponsors or potential sponsors their results from the Nationals and then trying to ask for continued support. Can you imagine being Colin Zar saying, Yeah I was the best Australian but I finished 6th. If you weren’t part of the trials community, would you continue your support? How would the riders promote themselves for sponsorship in 2006. Just trying to prevent this happening for our riders in 2008.

Lewry fam – You appear to be talking about professional sports but I think it is clear Aust Moto-Trials is an armature sport. How about you suggest some armature sports and while you are there bring it back to Motorcycle Competition. Can an Australian win the NZ sheep tossing championship? It just doesn’t compare.

Warren- possibly the wording should say australasia? This a good point and you are correct.

I was at the 99 titles and Dan Clark rode like a larrikin, he didn’t seem to care to much about dropping points. When the game was on in Qld at the indoor event, nobody stood a chance, and it showed. Don’t think you or the Aussies were in the same field that year.

You said, “Having Internationals riding your events will do more for the sport than local rider promotion in my experience”. Just wondering how it has helped in NZ, I don’t see or hear of anyone going there so what experience can you be talking about?

Your last words were, “Not only is it good for promotion but it lifts the level of riding which filters down through all grades”. I have to agree with this but should it really affect the Championship?

Can an Ozzie win the UK Championship? Or any other countries Championship for that matter?
I would love to know.

What’s wrong with having exhibition riders?



User avatar
outfit65
B grade participant
B grade participant
Posts: 70
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 4:52 pm
Location: Barossa Valley, SA

Postby outfit65 » Thu Aug 16, 2007 6:30 pm

Promo,

An example that is motorcycle related is this;

At the moment Glen Richards from South Australia is leading the British Superstock Championship with a few rounds to go. If he ends up as the leading points scorer he wins the Championship.

Last year Spaniard Georgio Lavillia WON the British Superbike Championship. Nobody took it away from him because he wasn't a Pom.

How many overseas riders have won the Suzuka 8 Hour, Japan's biggest race? Their names are engraved on that trophy.

Regarding your opening comments about chasing sponsorship; How much easier would it be for Colin Zar to attract sponsors if he finished in front of these European riders in 2005???

The other point here is if Moto Trials was a higher profile facet, like road race or motocross, then attracting sponsrs would also be made easier.

Aren't we trying to get our riders up to international standard? The only way for our riders to gain a measuring stick is to compete against them and not all our top riders are in a position to go to europe and ride.

I still think that these guys are coming a long way to ride to help promote the sport in Australia and should be allowed to take home the prize if they are good enough.

Outfit


Sidecars - its betta to have a swinger than fly solo!

whoopachang
Junior participant
Junior participant
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 2:29 pm

Postby whoopachang » Thu Aug 16, 2007 8:52 pm

I think that most of you are missing the point here. The Aussie Titles are our NATIONAL title as opposed to an INTERNATIONAL competition. I have done a little research re national trials competitions in other countries and have not yet found any that a non-national can win the class. Please correct me if I am wrong here. The competitions in other countries that can be won by non-nationals mentioned by a few of the other posts are not NATIONAL titles. For example, when James Dabill rides the Italian Championship he competes in the class but rides in the INTERNATIONAL section rather than the NATIONAL section meaning that at the end of the championship a rider such as Fabio Lenzi can be crowned as the Italian Champion but there is still a serious accolade for James Dabill to win. The year 2005 was a serious boost to the sport of trials in Australia and it's public exposure. The Supatrial really showed what we are capable of here in Australia when joined by our international friends. This was an enormous "jump" forward for the sport. Since then what has changed in the management and promotion of trials in Australia to continue this growth at international level? Absolutely nothing! How many more years do we have to keep bringing this subject up without coming up with a sensible way to deal with it. We have been made known to the rest of the world but have not shown them that we are a force to be reckoned with at INTERNATIONAL level. Our highest competition in the country is still a NATIONAL title. If we are to ever look towards World Rounds we have to show that we are proactive and change to keep up with the rest of the world. Why not run two consecutive classes - one NATIONAL pointscore and one INTERNATIONAL pointscore. It could be as simple as that. The current NATIONAL rules don't have to be changed, just add an INTERNATIONAL section. We are not children here fighting over our only toy that we refuse to share. Our own Australians should, and rightly so, be able to chase sponsorship for winning our NATIONAL title and wouldn't it be even better if they could say they won the INTERNATIONAL class! If we wish to attract these riders we need to provide them with true INTERNATIONAL competition and a Title to take home. This could be referred to as the Australian International Champion or Australian Open Champion as opposed to NATIONAL champion. The one and only high level competition for our own riders in this country is the Aussie Titles - there is nothing else to work towards. We need these INTERNATIONAL riders to join us to continue to raise the standard of our own riders and what better place than on our own soil! But we also need to treat them with the respect that they deserve and give them an INTERNATIONAL competition. The only way to raise our level to theirs is to continually compete against them and this is not just a matter of knowing we have to ride better. The only way to achieve this is to see the Open Solo level of the sport as "professional" and get over the "amateur" aspect of it. If we want to beat someone like Shaun Morris we have to train every day, like he does. Let's get on with the show and take another "jump" forward, before we miss the boat completely.



lewry family
B grade participant
B grade participant
Posts: 92
Joined: Sun Nov 06, 2005 10:34 pm
Location: Shellharbour

Postby lewry family » Thu Aug 16, 2007 9:43 pm

The comments I made were thinking 'outside the square' into other sports. If we are to encourage the growth of trials we can't keep the blinkers on. How have these other sports developed into what they are today? They had to start somewhere. Is it true that the Sydney City to Surf started as more of a 'fun-run'?

One point to consider though, is that sports/events often stay amateur until the profile is lifted/ the standard of competition is heightened and the the pubic attention is attracted (hence leading to better media coverage and sponsorship support)

Surely by encouraging overseas entrants all these factors benefit.

Just my opinions
Maree :P


Trials.......the family sport

Steve Holzhauser
B grade participant
B grade participant
Posts: 76
Joined: Thu Jan 22, 2004 8:48 pm
Location: Casino .

Postby Steve Holzhauser » Thu Aug 16, 2007 11:55 pm

You must give credit where it is due, Whoopachang, I think you have hit the nail right on the head, this is a NATIONAL TITLE event.

Each year we hold the Australian National titles and with all due respect to Warren and any Kiwis that come each year for our event, I have been a bit saddened to see a non Aussie holding the title.

The appearance of professional riders from overseas is to be encouraged and they are welcomed with open arms, BUT not coming to contest what is a mere walk in the park for them.

Since the 2005 appearance of the lads from overseas there has been a real lull in trials I feel, and the only noticeable growth area has been in twinshocks.
Have they done the opposite of what was hope to be achieved.
You may have brought many new spectators to view their skills at Canungra and the Supertrial in Victoria, but in reality what they saw is pretty scarey stuff and many would more than likely have left saying "them blokes can have that all to themselves".


Your suggestion of an International class is quite in keeping with the practice already in place overseas.

To set an International line for these professional riders to show ther skills would separate them from the National solo line, but more importantly it will give the opportunity for any of the Australian top experts to have a choice of entering the event and riding either the National line or the International line if he felt he was capable.

The current situation is candy for the taking in favor of any world ranked rider who was to compete.

As pointed out by Promo, our 2007 Manual of Motorcycle Sport General Competition Rules clearly state under ruling 23.8.3.2 that

RIDERS OF ANY NATIONALITY MAY BE AWARDED THE AUSTRALIAN CHAMPIONSHIP.

That has been the case for as far back as I have MA year books, and maybe it is time this should be looked at and changed to be ;

AN AUSTRALIAN NATIONAL MAY ONLY BE AWARDED THE NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP.

The continual belief that to get better and lift our skill levels is to get thrashed, that is just to silly for words.

The skills display by the worlds best are not skills that just come from practise alone, these are people that have THE gift and enhance it to be the super stars of our sport.

We have a number of riders who for many seasons have made a huge comittement and effort to live the dream and compete and practice with the worlds best and come back home for our Nationals and still have been denied lifting the title.

Who cares what other sports do, lets look after our own top Australian riders in a very specialised motorcycle sport and let them receive the millions of dollars for being the National champion. :D



User avatar
CLARKY
Junior participant
Junior participant
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2006 6:54 pm
Location: NZ

Postby CLARKY » Fri Aug 17, 2007 3:35 pm

Hi

I think it dose suck a bit when a Ausie who has trained all year to do as well as he can at the NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP , to only be put down the list because a International rider who are way ahead of Ausie & NZ ,

Yes they do bring alot to the sport , But lets face it NZ & Ausie top 5 riders are never going to be as good as the International riders that come out here ,

To get better you have to ride with the best day in & day out ,
( Warren & A.Harry have proved this )

Sure there a few Kiwis & Ausie that are doing there stuff over seas ,
But there is such a big gap in the results ,
(Take the Scottish for example) ,

(About as much gap as beteen Japan & NZ in a game of rugby ) 8)

The super trial you had in 2005 was great for the sport and keeped your top local riders involed in the super trial ,

I say have seperate 1st 2nd 3rd australasia trophy for the International riders ,

Then you can keep Ausie Champs for the guys that should win them ,

As far as NZ guys winning your champs , This is not so bad as our top guys & yours are around the same level ,

It would be good to see some of your top guys come over here to NZ & take out our NZ champs , :D , not every year tho, :lol:

Would be nice to see a Ture Ausie, (maybe kiwi too), take out your champs every year & in 2007 too ,

8)


(Enjoy it or Don"t do it)

User avatar
outfit65
B grade participant
B grade participant
Posts: 70
Joined: Tue Oct 24, 2006 4:52 pm
Location: Barossa Valley, SA

Postby outfit65 » Fri Aug 17, 2007 4:46 pm

Just found this on Dougie Lampkins website;
2001, 1st Spanish Adult Championship
2003, 1st Spanish Adult Championship
Isn't Dougie from the UK?? As World Champion wasn't it a bit unfair that he denies an up and coming Spanish rider (Raga for instance) the chance to win his national title?

The 2005 Scottish Six Day was won by Joan Pons from Ben Hemingway, neither of these two are Scottish, especially Joan Pons who isn't even British!

I could go on citing more examples but don't see the point.

The rules are set and of all who are having a say here I don't see any of our top riders putting their views forward - is it that they look forward to the challenge of trying to beat the internationals?

At the Super trial in 2005 Shaun Morris finished in 19 points, Jordi Pascuet was second on 24 points, James Dabill 3rd on 34 points and then Colin Zar in 4th on 40 points. One hell of an effort by Colin and not far off the podium. My bet would be the next time they face off Colin would be itching to have another crack at them fair and square, and not be 'given' the win because internationals weren't allowed to place.

What next - all of the interstate riders who will ride the SA Titles this year are unable to win an SA Championship because they aren't Croweaters?

The SA riders heading to the Vic Titles have to come home empty handed even if they win?

If Boyd, Mitch, Adrian and all the Aussies that head overseas couldn't win any of the national events that they compete in, in Europe, possibly wouldn't bother to head over there if they could only ride to win in the World Championship rounds.

As Keith said above - let 'em in & let 'em win!

Outfit


Sidecars - its betta to have a swinger than fly solo!

User avatar
BJ
Expert participant
Expert participant
Posts: 271
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2003 8:00 am
Location: Moving Quickly

Postby BJ » Fri Aug 17, 2007 4:48 pm

Hmmm

Well unless they have a "Clubman" trophy in the Nats I'll be safe. Can I have the white plate back if I promise not to cheat????

I do think an Australian title should and could be an Aus thing. BUT, if internationals come here to steal the trophy... Doesn't that give our top guys some impotence to take it to them if they know they are coming?? We have riders doing backflips in FMX (& Trials too) so if they come let's give'm hell.

My question is???????

Will the manufactures let the importers make sure all the bikes and tuning specs we have here for our Xperts are as good as those that fly in for the visit??


BJ
Gone over to the Dark Side for a bit!!!!
http://www.parlagully.com


Return to “Trials Talk”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests