Australian Champion V’s European Australian Champion

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Should European Riders be eligible to win the Australian Championship

Poll ended at Fri Oct 12, 2007 8:22 pm

Yes
24
62%
No
15
38%
 
Total votes: 39

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CLARKY
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Postby CLARKY » Mon Aug 20, 2007 4:54 am

I know make up a new pole for just the TOP TEN Ausie riders from 2006 champs ,

(No names) , See what these guys think about it ,

run two separate pointscore's within the one class (Sounds Good to me)

reward the Ausie with there own Australian Title, and reward the internationals with another title , ( Sounds good too )

8)


(Enjoy it or Don"t do it)

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outfit65
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Postby outfit65 » Mon Aug 20, 2007 2:08 pm

Rocco,

No idea why Dougie has put it on his site as the 'adult' championship. You would have to ask him I guess :D

I think you missed my point on the State Titles - I meant a Victorian winning the SA Title, or vice versa. It is allowed as I think it should be.

This has been a great topic, and I guess not all will agree, and it would be good to get a few experts opinions on the topic. I can understand why they are staying silent, but if they want it changed, or to stay the same, they should speak up without fear of being labelled a whinger or something just as silly.

These guys are the face of the sport on a national and international level and their views are just as important as the lower grades who are the backbone of the sport and the juniors who are the future.

Bring on the Trials week 2007.

Outfit


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Promo
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Postby Promo » Thu Aug 23, 2007 5:41 pm

BJ you said, “Warren. Supertrial was a handicap not really riders doing different grades. Maybe we should have an international line for the visitors????? A few extra splits might be all we need to even the score?”

Warren’s right, Colin wasn’t 4th. At the Supertrial all the Aussies rode a different line than the international guests, a line that was a lot easier to ride in the 90-second time limit. Without the time limit the Aussies could have competed over the same obstacles as the internationals. BJ maybe you shouldn’t comment on what you don’t know or aren’t 100% on.

Now if all the internationals from the Supertrial rode the Australian Championships in 2005 and beat all the Aussies the best placed Australian would have been in 11th place. Got to remember not all the internationals rode the Aussie Titles.

An “International class” sounds like a great idea to me. This way the Australian riders can compete over the same sections and gauge their skills without affecting the National Title of Australian or Australasian Champion.

Has anyone got the answer to the question of how many licenses any 1 rider can have?

Flatslide are you 100% sure an Aussie can win the NZ champs and take the title of NZ Champion?
How would NZ take it in a couple years time if an Aussie Won the NZ Title over and over?

You said, “Personally, bring em on I say! The talk after the titles in QLD '05 has only just died down. I've had the luxury of watching the world's top riders in action but a lot of trials fans haven't.”

It’s all well and good to say, bring em on, when you’re not a Championship rider and it won’t affect you.

Those of you talking about interstate riders winning championships, we are talking about the NATIONAL TITLE here, Aussies V’s Aussies shouldn’t be an issue.

Those of you talking about spelling issues obviously don’t realize this is a serious topic and should talk elsewhere.

I too can understand why the Experts are not talking in this debate but it would be good to hear what they have to say.

Whoopachang we are on the same field mate. What you said before pretty much sums it up and I cant see that anyone has answered the question! I will finish up here for now on your quote:

“I think that most of you are missing the point here. The Aussie Titles are our NATIONAL title as opposed to an INTERNATIONAL competition. I have done a little research re national trials competitions in other countries and have not yet found any that a non-national can win the class. Please correct me if I am wrong here. The competitions in other countries that can be won by non-nationals mentioned by a few of the other posts are not NATIONAL titles. For example, when James Dabill rides the Italian Championship he competes in the class but rides in the INTERNATIONAL section rather than the NATIONAL section meaning that at the end of the championship a rider such as Fabio Lenzi can be crowned as the Italian Champion but there is still a serious accolade for James Dabill to win”.



David Lahey
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Postby David Lahey » Thu Aug 23, 2007 7:55 pm

Promo wrote:

BJ maybe you shouldn’t comment on what you don’t know or aren’t 100% on.

Those of you talking about spelling issues obviously don’t realize this is a serious topic and should talk elsewhere.



And while we are on our shoulds and shouldn'ts, maybe the person hiding behind the Promo pseudonym should read the book "How to win friends and influence people" by Dale Carnegie



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outfit65
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Postby outfit65 » Thu Aug 23, 2007 8:48 pm

Promo & Woopachang

The research you have done is biased to your argument - it is not hard to find examples of OS riders winning championships. James Dabill may not be able to win in Italy but not every country is the same.

Dougie Lampkin has 2 Spanish Championships listed on his website - he is a Pom.
Non Scottish riders consistantly win the SSDT
How many Aussies have won or placed in British Road Racing Titles?
Mat Mladin has 6 AMA Superbike Titles in the USA - noone has more than him!
Chad Reed won the AMA Supercross Title in the USA.
Noone in the enduro side of things have queried Stefan Merrimans right to win the A4DE (before he became an Aussie), nor David Knight from the UK this year.
Should I go on or is this enough examples from all facets?

This may be a 'serious' topic, but surely there is an avenue to have a bit of fun as well - maybe some people shouldn't take themselves so seriously?

And who is to say that in 2005 Colin Zar would have only finished 11th? He may well have still finished in the top 10 - perhaps he shouldn't be written off so quickly.

I would still like to hear from the Experts though, as we can have an opinion, but at the end of the day, does it really count as we will never go head to head for the Open Solo Australian Championship!

Outfit

[/quote]


Sidecars - its betta to have a swinger than fly solo!

Warren Laugesen
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Postby Warren Laugesen » Fri Aug 24, 2007 7:10 pm

OK, So now this has developed a bit here is my new opinion as an Expert and past Champion. I think NZ should be able to win the Aussie title and vise versa if you are game enough to come over. But I think if a top British/European rider comes over then they should ride as a demonstration rider only, they can take a trophy but not the title.
The hardest part will be determining who is a top UK rider and who isnt and where is the limit?

Come on guys (Zars, Trevor, Dillan, Mitch, Boyd, Tomo, Adrian etc) the key board wont bite you. Say what you feel, dont worry what the others think of you as that dosent matter. Talking about some thing we are all pasionate about is good. Tomo are you back from those Norwegian Mountains yet?



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flatslide
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Postby flatslide » Mon Aug 27, 2007 6:24 pm

Promo, you are right, I am not a championship rider, thats why I say "bring em on I say", you notice the little "I" in there? I didnt say "bring em on say all the expert riders" cos I am not speaking on their behalf.

I still say let them ride and win the Aussie championship, but give out the title of 1st, 2nd, 3rd etc Aussie. Are our top guys riding trials as their occupation? Are they riding for Sheep Stations? Put it in perspective.

I do remember winning a round of the NSW titles back in 1990, there were Queenslanders riding then, would I have cared if one of them had won the round, nope, would I have cared if a Kiwi had been there and won that round. nope, and it was the only round of a NSW championships A grade title I ever won. I just won the NSW Masters champs on the weekend (maybe cos some of the better riders were either not riding or riding A grade) but I would have welcomed any other riders competing in it either from Australia or NZ or anywhere else.

If some of the Experts come on here and state they would like the Australian Championship only being able to be won by an Aussie then I would take that on board and maybe change my mind but until then...



Rocco
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Australian Champion vs European Australian Champion

Postby Rocco » Tue Aug 28, 2007 10:29 am

Flatslide, they are competing for the title of AUSTRALIAN MOTO TRIALS CHAMPION. It has nothing to do with sheep stations or money for that matter, just best trials rider in Australia. Is there something wrong with an Australian wanting this title?

But would it make a difference to the argument if a high profile company was to put up a prize package of, say $25,000 for the winner? When this happens the foreign riders will be here by the plane load. How would we deal with this then?

But for now, just the title of AUSTRALIAN MOTO TRIALS CHAMPION. :lol: :lol:



tomo
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Postby tomo » Sat Sep 01, 2007 1:46 am

Definatley a topic that will cause some controversy!
Guess it's time for some more experts to say their piece. I can see two side's to this. For one, the top Australian and Kiwi experts like to fight it out for the Australian Championship. Two, we always should welcome OS riders because in the long run becausen it can only help our sport grow.
So for us aussie's, we work hard all year towards the biggest trial on the Australian calendar, and when the time comes we all have much grief trying to beat each other for the title.

We all have sponsors that we are trying to promote. Sure, our sport is quite small compared to most other motorcycle sports in the country but, our sponsors still take the time and effort to help us out where they can, so our reward or obligation to them is to try and put our bike on the top of the podium. We all know that the sponorship dollars in trials circles currently is tiny, compared to say motorcross or the like, so as some of you will point out, it probably is'nt relative factor/ point to make.


But, I can see much benefit from these riders coming also. Our juniors enjoy getting some world level coaching at local level rates. We all get to see first hand what the likes of Shaun Morris can do on a trials bike. The offshoot is having more juniors firing for that top level, the world championship. Currently we have perhap one or two riders capable of making a decent go of it over seas, not just european but world Junior. Not just riding to finish but to get points, aim for the top ten, get noticed by some of the bigger teams.

That's what we should all be aiming for!, sure the experts, I as one can say that, i don't want to ride against them at the Aussie's, because there is little to no chance that i can beat them. But that's where we can adapt and cater for them. Perhaps they ride the same lines but have a sperate grade on the scoreboard say, international, so everyone still gets to watch them ride, compare there scores against ours, but an Australasian still takes the honors at the end of the day.



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Postby Smiddy » Sat Sep 01, 2007 8:12 pm

Outfit, I think you may be the pot calling the kettle black there...
The Spanish Championship was a closed national series throughout '00-'02 (I believe it was three years, can someone clarify?) while Lampkin was thrashing the pants off the home stars. It was felt that National prestige was still required so that they could have a national champion that actually resides in the country. Once the Spaniards were back on level-pegging though, it became a mini world champs again.
Mat Mladin, as far as I can recall, spends 10 months a year in the US. While he is a competing AMA rider, he's an Aussie on-loan to America. The same goes for Chad. It is vastly different if you live in the country and are there passively (or actively) promoting the sport with your presence, versus heading over, doing an event or two over the course of a week, then heading back to Europe leaving the nation without the drawcard of a resident National Champion.
The Scottish is not a national championship; it is a stand-alone "tour" event if you will, much like the cycling grand tours. By the way, every national championship for cycling is closed for affiliation entrants only; road, mountain bike, trials, you name it. Athletics and swimming are the same; I don't know the figures but I'd suggest there'd be just as many closed national championship sports as open ones
I wouldn't be surprised if MA would change the GCRs if an international won a major championship repeatedly, such as Speedway, that have had a long-standing world championship reputation.
I'm definitely with Tom and Rocco on this one. I'd supplant it that the international riders often wouldn't come over explicitly for the CV filler anyway; more for a riding holiday / promotions / help the strugglers improve deal! While it's sensational when they come down to school us all, it'd be great to have the Australian Champion actually reside here!

Edit: My apologies, the closed Spanish Championships were 2002-2003.




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