Feedback please for 09 Titles

Want to say something about trials? Let the world know in here!

Moderator: Moderators

Tony C
C grade participant
C grade participant
Posts: 47
Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2005 10:11 pm
Location: Sydney

Feedback please for 09 Titles

Postby Tony C » Fri Oct 17, 2008 6:04 pm

It was suggested I re-post this in case some don't read the Womens section.
We are seeking feedback on ways of encouraging more riders to the Titles next year.
We belive this event should be open to all abilities not just cater for elite riders or riders of more ability.
Now's the time to make your feelings known. We welcome all suggestions.
This is in no way is any criticism of this years event which I personally thought was one of the best organised & run events. Well done to the organisers & helpers.
As said at the presentation, NSW will have a lot to live up to in 09.


Hi girls & others,
I will be actively involved in section setting for the 09 Titles.
As Steve has said, there is a huge difference in ability of riders competing in Womens & Veterans classes.
We need to consider an easier weekend for these 2 classes in particular & review some other classes.
Say 15 sections were set, 10 be of a Clubman standard, 3 of C & 2 of C+/B standard.
This should cater for all abilities, those wishing not to ride the 2 harder sections would only lose 10 points but still hopefully have an enjoyable weekend riding the easier sections.
Those who finish on 0 at the end of the weekend could ride off for a place.
In the case of Veterans those who think this criterior would be too easy can choose to ride Masters.
We need to encourage all riders of any ability to enter and not set for the elite riders.
Why is there a preconception that the Titles need to be difficult, Open Solo aside.

Now that riders have had time to evaluate last weekend, we, the 09 organisers would like to know some of your thoughts for next year?
After all, the weekend is all about the riders.

Tony C.



User avatar
keithj
Expert participant
Expert participant
Posts: 291
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 10:00 am
Bike: Gas Gas 250
Club: OMCC
Location: sunny melb

Re: Feedback please for 09 Titles

Postby keithj » Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:16 pm

Hi Tony,

Two quick things from me -
1) The Junior 7-12 was a great idea, as it helped separate the 'younger' juniors from the older ones (who typically ride C+ and B grade anyway).
2) Appreciate you wanting to be more inclusive of riders, but be warned - those ineligible riders are where you get most of your observers. 30 observers and 30 clickers for each day is a LOT of people. We struggled, even with the non-riders to call on.

All the best!


Keith.

-> Mouse Magnet <-


bigdamo
B grade participant
B grade participant
Posts: 94
Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2006 9:50 am
Location: Sydney,Australia

Re: Feedback please for 09 Titles

Postby bigdamo » Sun Oct 19, 2008 9:21 am

I'm not saying I know the answers to the dilemma of getting observe's for Trials events but when I was racing Enduro's with Oyster bay MCC you got 100 points added to your your yearly club championship points if you or your friend/family helped out at two events for the year.

Maybe If the lower or even all the grades got friends and family to observe / help at next years Aussie titles they got some incentive to get these people involved and then they could ride as well?



yamfan
B grade participant
B grade participant
Posts: 92
Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2007 12:58 pm
Bike: Various
Club: pathfinders/ajs

Re: Feedback please for 09 Titles

Postby yamfan » Sun Oct 19, 2008 7:40 pm

Sorry I must agree with Keith quality observers are hard to come by, especially finding 30 for two days + 30 punchers, I realise help can be found by using scouts, friends, etc but a event, especially as important as the nationals can be easilly ruined by lack of quality observers.

I rode in the Vic states this year with all grades catered for and the que's especially on the informous section 12 were horrendous (UP TO 30 MINS) what with the time penalties which many riders incured put a dampener on a otherwise excellent event.
I know that with two sets of sections less riders are queing but I doubt that would be the case with an extra 30-40 clubbies entering.

The nationals are just that "The Australian Nationals" just when do you stop introducing more and more grades, do we need a vets+, sidecarB, Agrade, Junior small wheels etc or do we run an event for the best in the major grades and let the smaller juniors and clubbies join in when they have aspired to ride a nationals.

At the end of the day I wouldn't expect to compete in the Olympics or any other national dicipline because i'm just not good enough, "YET!!".



bigdamo
B grade participant
B grade participant
Posts: 94
Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2006 9:50 am
Location: Sydney,Australia

Re: Feedback please for 09 Titles

Postby bigdamo » Sun Oct 19, 2008 8:19 pm

yamfan wrote:Sorry I must agree with Keith quality observers are hard to come by, especially finding 30 for two days + 30 punchers, I realise help can be found by using scouts, friends, etc but a event, especially as important as the nationals can be easilly ruined by lack of quality observers.

I rode in the Vic states this year with all grades catered for and the que's especially on the informous section 12 were horrendous (UP TO 30 MINS) what with the time penalties which many riders incured put a dampener on a otherwise excellent event.
I know that with two sets of sections less riders are queing but I doubt that would be the case with an extra 30-40 clubbies entering.

The nationals are just that "The Australian Nationals" just when do you stop introducing more and more grades, do we need a vets+, sidecarB, Agrade, Junior small wheels etc or do we run an event for the best in the major grades and let the smaller juniors and clubbies join in when they have aspired to ride a nationals.

At the end of the day I wouldn't expect to compete in the Olympics or any other national dicipline because i'm just not good enough, "YET!!".



Why is that the lesser grades are expected to observe for the elite of the sport.

That elitist attitude will lead to the death of trials in Australia.

Too many other things clubmen and C graders can do.

In years to come it will be interesting where trials ends up when the best of the best get old and move on? Oh thats alright they can go and ride the masters or veterans pity the 21 to 35 year olds that are not the best of the best.I would have thought they are the future of trials.

Other forms of motor bike racing have realized this.



Smiddy
Junior participant
Junior participant
Posts: 19
Joined: Mon Oct 27, 2003 1:03 pm

Re: Feedback please for 09 Titles

Postby Smiddy » Sun Oct 19, 2008 8:46 pm

It is a shame that the discussion of support classes at the National titles comes up year after year...
We are talking about the showcase event of Australian trials. Observers of a high quality are few and far between and are particularly required for these once-a-year events; surely riders who do not fall into the categories are the best possible candidates to fill the position, given their first-hand experience of the sport. All national, and many state, championships in all sports require non-elite competitors to assist in running of the events: trials requires this even more so due to its low press coverage and public understanding.

I am one of those riders caught out; I rode Open Solo in '04 with the understanding that the sections would vary from a low A-Grade to above Expert when, unfortunately, it ended up virtually the latter all weekend. As a consequence I would only ride again if I was an Expert (Did anyone notice not a single A-Grader attempted Open Solo this year?)
So what did I do in the '99 and '03 titles held in Victoria? I observed both days to provide all riders with ideal section scorers and ensured fairness & compliance with the rules, giving something back to the sport (Would've been doing the same this year, except I'm finishing my degree).
I'm sorry Bigdamo, but if anything, your post is strictly anti-competitive. It is the grassroots riders that make this sport go around, and the Nationals is the primary example of this. If everyone were to ride the event, no-one could.

So what is the solution? South Australia having a "trials week", and followed up by Victoria this year, shows that people without a class at the Titles can easily be accommodated for. From what I've heard, even the people that couldn't ride the Titles had a fantastic time with the three other competition days available.
Alternatively, there may be some credence to following the English & Spanish models in holding the Veterans & Juniors events separately to the Elite. That way you gain the required observers at both events, but would cause extra stress on the organisers in planning.



bigdamo
B grade participant
B grade participant
Posts: 94
Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2006 9:50 am
Location: Sydney,Australia

Re: Feedback please for 09 Titles

Postby bigdamo » Sun Oct 19, 2008 9:41 pm

Ok Smiddy

using your formula who are you going to use for observes in the future when there are very little new comers entering trials (well at least in NSW I doubt it would be any different in other states)

I doubt there would be 10 probably less new people sticking it out in trials competitions in the 2 years that I've been doing it.

MX and enduro are booming and they have a far greater pool of people to choose from to organise events and mostly there not riders/competitors for the big events.

OH and by the way last time I went to a moto-x everyone including the A grader's took turns at Flag Marshall.



User avatar
keithj
Expert participant
Expert participant
Posts: 291
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 10:00 am
Bike: Gas Gas 250
Club: OMCC
Location: sunny melb

Re: Feedback please for 09 Titles

Postby keithj » Sun Oct 19, 2008 9:49 pm

bigdamo wrote:Why is that the lesser grades are expected to observe for the elite of the sport.

That elitist attitude will lead to the death of trials in Australia.

Too many other things clubmen and C graders can do.

In years to come it will be interesting where trials ends up when the best of the best get old and move on? Oh thats alright they can go and ride the masters or veterans pity the 21 to 35 year olds that are not the best of the best.I would have thought they are the future of trials.

Other forms of motor bike racing have realized this.


Hi Bigdamo,
You are right - the 'lesser' grades DON'T have to observe. And we CAN go the way of other motorsport by having fully licenced and paid officials at every section.

And for the three events that would actually run each year, you'd probably be able to save up the $500+ entry fees.

Sorry dude, I like my cheap, less-regulated motorsport, and therefore help out when I can. I can ride a dozen other events in my state each year, so missing one (to watch some great action) is really not a big deal.

Regards


Keith.

-> Mouse Magnet <-


bigdamo
B grade participant
B grade participant
Posts: 94
Joined: Sat Sep 23, 2006 9:50 am
Location: Sydney,Australia

Re: Feedback please for 09 Titles

Postby bigdamo » Sun Oct 19, 2008 10:16 pm

Keith your missing the point.

Observer's are in short supply.

New riders entering trials are in short supply.

Where are you going to get your observer's of the future if you have very few new riders coming through and there are plenty of other activities these days they can do.How many riders will turn up for the blue light rally in Vic this year.

To the best of my knowledge all open trials in NSW this year where crying out for observer's and probably could have done with a few more competitors for that matter.



sharvie
Expert participant
Expert participant
Posts: 325
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 4:38 am
Location: Maitland NSW

Re: Feedback please for 09 Titles

Postby sharvie » Mon Oct 20, 2008 6:18 am

The club I am in runs a raffel at each event $ 1 per ticket. 1st prize 1/2 the money generated from sale of the tickets, the other 1/2 the money is divided amongst the observers & card markers. It helps


Sharvie ~ Maitland NSW


Return to “Trials Talk”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 13 guests