4 stroke V 2 stroke

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lukesta888
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4 stroke V 2 stroke

Postby lukesta888 » Mon Aug 02, 2010 7:50 am

Hi Guys,

Its been quite a while since i rode trials and they certainly have been alot of developments. 2 stroke bikes was the only option really.

Just after some feedback on 4 stroke V 2 stroke.



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Neo
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Re: 4 stroke V 2 stroke

Postby Neo » Mon Aug 02, 2010 8:07 pm

Hi lukesta888,

Although much smoother the four strokes trials engines have failed to be as lite or give the low centre of gravity that the two strokes do. GasGas came the closes to lunching the best Trials 4-Stroke with a very innovative side valve engine. But it never made it to the production line. And I personally think that GasGas made mistake by scraping that engine....which could have given them the differentiator they really need right now.
So the trials manufactures have all gone back to the 2 Stokes which has it's advantages but definitely not as refined.

Just my 2 cent worth.

Best of balance.
Neo


"Nothing more and nothing less than the vision of success"..... Ryan Leech
"TRIALS....It's not life or death....It's much more serious than that!!".....

Tim Barwick
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Re: 4 stroke V 2 stroke

Postby Tim Barwick » Mon Aug 02, 2010 9:54 pm

Personlly i thought the idea of a 4 stroke was to be a nice soft smoth engine for the rider that didn't want to leap of huge rock's but wanted a nicer option rathe than the agresive 2 stroke well aside from the new beta 4t that hasn't happened in making a 4 stroke powerfull enough to keep toni bou and the like happy the 4 stroke has ended up a evil engine very agresive power and not in anyway easy to ride with huge engine breaking which is almost imposible to get use to for the lower grade rider.
Every 2 stroke out this year seam's to be so nice to ride very smooth and run's great and if you look at the price difference then the on going cost,
any of today's 2 stroke's will be more than happy with a clean air filter and good fuel for many hour's of happy trails riding



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Neo
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Re: 4 stroke V 2 stroke

Postby Neo » Tue Aug 03, 2010 7:40 am

Well pointed out Tim,

Although some 4T's can be made much less aggressive with simple mods.
Some have fitted OKO 24mm carbs to Sherco 4T and say they purr like a pussy cat :wink:
And the Scorpa 125/200 4T and the early Mont's 4RT's were quite smooth too.

Best of balance.
Neo


"Nothing more and nothing less than the vision of success"..... Ryan Leech
"TRIALS....It's not life or death....It's much more serious than that!!".....

paul b
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Re: 4 stroke V 2 stroke

Postby paul b » Wed Aug 04, 2010 10:51 am

The biggest issue for a recreational rider like myself is COST. Two strokes are so simple and easy to rebuild. Four strokes are larger and more complex.
This issue was addressed by Team manager Luciano Bonaria in Trial Magazine No 18, which I got from Paul Arnott.
He considers all factors and concludes "A two-stroke machine is better for modern trials".
He talks about the economic situation for trials manufacturers and states that that new bike sales have fallen from 10000 units per annum some years ago to 5000 units today.
The article was entitled "Death of Modern Trials".
Sad reality.



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Re: 4 stroke V 2 stroke

Postby Neo » Wed Aug 04, 2010 12:05 pm

paul b wrote:He talks about the economic situation for trials manufacturers and states that that new bike sales have fallen from 10000 units per annum some years ago to 5000 units today.

I wonder where he got those numbers from? I've been in Trials for a few years now and I see more people and more new bikes being sold than before (nothing huge but definitely more). If this was true why would Sherco, GasGas and Scorpa continue to develop their bikes?...And why would companies like XPA and Ossa start a new production lines of Trials bikes?...I think these companies might disagree with Luciano Bonaria's opinion.

Best of balance.
Neo


"Nothing more and nothing less than the vision of success"..... Ryan Leech
"TRIALS....It's not life or death....It's much more serious than that!!".....

paul b
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Re: 4 stroke V 2 stroke

Postby paul b » Wed Aug 04, 2010 12:33 pm

Hi Neo,
Europe is worse hit in the global financial crisis than us ---YET. Recently, Skorpa went bust, never paid Yamaha and were taken over by Sherco. Very little money is left to spend on non-essential goods like bikes. You mentioned Xispa (pronounced chespa)-a totally tricked up 2009 just sold here on eBay for $4000 after several listings and much advertising on this site. Paul Arnott was the seller.
Many people in Europe took out low interest loans in Swiss francs, forgetting that that currency is strong. Consequently, the debt levels are out of control.
Its not good news.
Remember these words of wisdom- life's a bitch and then you marry one



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Re: 4 stroke V 2 stroke

Postby Neo » Wed Aug 04, 2010 12:56 pm

Hi Paul,

If it's the economic downturn that's causing the drop in sales that's better news than if "no one wants to ride trials bike any more" (from a Trials prospective) because it means that the numbers will come back when the economy does....and it will!!!

Xispa are dead thats true but XPA are alive and kicking with a new engine on the market....and yes it's a 2-Stroke :P

Best of balance.
Neo


"Nothing more and nothing less than the vision of success"..... Ryan Leech
"TRIALS....It's not life or death....It's much more serious than that!!".....

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Re: 4 stroke V 2 stroke

Postby CRAFTY » Wed Aug 04, 2010 7:11 pm

2 Stroke Vs 4
Obviously those that dont think 4 strokes are up to standard have not ridden the Beta EVO4, 300cc 4 stroke.
I once thought 4 strokes were heavy and awkward myself.
I rode the Beta 300 in october last year thanks to KAOS trials in NSW. It was the best balanced, smoothest ride I had been on for years so I bought it.
Having been on the bike for about 9 months now I have to say for riding B Grade the bike is awesome. It took me about 2 rides to get used to the different power delivery to the Sherco 290 I had just stepped off. The weight difference is negligible and power delivery is nice and smooth (I nearly always ride on the slow map). The bike is incredibly well balanced. When riding silly A grade stuff the fast map brings it alive with the flick of a switch.
So have a ride on both 2 and 4 stroke bikes if you get the chance. You may be surprised.
Glenn



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Re: 4 stroke V 2 stroke

Postby Tim Barwick » Wed Aug 04, 2010 9:42 pm

CRAFTY wrote:2 Stroke Vs 4
Obviously those that dont think 4 strokes are up to standard have not ridden the Beta EVO4, 300cc 4 stroke.
I once thought 4 strokes were heavy and awkward myself.
I rode the Beta 300 in october last year thanks to KAOS trials in NSW. It was the best balanced, smoothest ride I had been on for years so I bought it.
Having been on the bike for about 9 months now I have to say for riding B Grade the bike is awesome. It took me about 2 rides to get used to the different power delivery to the Sherco 290 I had just stepped off. The weight difference is negligible and power delivery is nice and smooth (I nearly always ride on the slow map). The bike is incredibly well balanced. When riding silly A grade stuff the fast map brings it alive with the flick of a switch.
So have a ride on both 2 and 4 stroke bikes if you get the chance. You may be surprised.
Glenn



As my post say's beta seam to be the only one's that use the advantage's of a 4 stroke instead of taking them away in a effort to try and get some hp to keep up with the 2 stroke, they realy are a nice ride very smooth run VERY well and for the everyman's trials bike beta 4 stroke would be the only 4 stroke worth looking at in my opinion




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