NSW observing standards are at an all time low

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Promo
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NSW observing standards are at an all time low

Postby Promo » Tue Nov 16, 2010 9:11 pm

NSW observing standards are at an all time low.

In particular I wish to discuss the 90 second time limit which clearly is not being applied correctly. Observers are rare and they are the backbone of our wonderful sport. Firstly I wish to say that I have observed a great deal more than most and I appreciate the commitment and sacrifice made by our modern day observers.

Having said that, I also believe that if you are going to do something, do it right.
I am not sure if organizers are teaching the observers incorrectly or how the practice has edged into events but the 90 second time limit is not being applied in most grades and not being consistently enforced in others. I have witnessed on countless occasions that Junior, Clubman, C-Grade, B-Gradel, Masters and Greybeards are not being timed by some observers at all. This frustrates me, we have the GCR’s for a reason and for an observer/organizers to pick and choose which rules they want to enforce is inconsistent and unfair. This practice is becoming all too common and I hope readers agree that this must stop. Don’t be afraid, voice your concerns to organizers or they wont know that there is an issue.

A facebook video has surfaced from Round 5 of the NSW Championships featuring Kyle Middleton and some very ordinary observing.

This is the link. http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php ... nts&ref=mf

Have a look for yourself, see what you think.

Here are some points to consider

At 90 seconds Kyle is still about 15m away from the end of the section, on the top of the hill.
At 93 seconds Kyles minders stopwatch beeps signaling the end of 90 seconds with Kyle still 8m away from the end of the section
At 96 seconds Kyle exits the section
At 55 seconds Kyle puts the front wheel up on a rock and then pulls it backwards off the rock, but he is not issued a 5 for going backwards?
Lets allow 1 second at the start of the clip as Kyle enters the section so he is still 5 seconds over the allowed 90 seconds
In 5 seconds, on a trials bike, you can cover a great distance in a section.

Despite going backwards and being over time Kyle is issued a 2 by the observers for his efforts.

No disrespect to kyle for this ride, it is the observing which is a concern.

Similarly at Round 3 of the NSW Championships the organizers forgot the stop watches so decided that the event would run without the 90 second time limit, against the regulations of the GCR’s. No attempt was made to enquire if the riders had a spare stop watch to lend for the day and overall this dramatically affected the way the event was run, the outcome of place getters and generally implied that the event was not important enough to be run in the correct format.

Please discuss this with others in the trials community and lets get the consistency to the level it should be. By working together we can easily get issues like this sorted before season 2011.



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CRAFTY
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Re: NSW observing standards are at an all time low

Postby CRAFTY » Tue Nov 16, 2010 11:05 pm

Gday Promo,

99% of us ride for the fun and 0% of us ride for the money.
Who gives a rats if we have a minor hiccup (human error) and have to run an event without time penalties?
If I was observing the expert lines I too would give the rider a few seconds lee-way at the start of a section so my timing didnt get me into arguments at the end of a ride (once again we are human and the observer and minder are not always exactly in sync with their stopwatch).
Im sure all NSW clubs would be happy for you to organise and train observers for the title rounds, not as easy to co-ordinate as you seem to think (best of luck to you).
Its easy to put sh*t on organisers and observers, especially when you omit your name from your posts.
Give yourself a reality check and remember that "Trials makes smiles". (If it doesn't do it for you, maybe you are in the wrong sport).

Crafty.
Glenn Crafter.



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paulm
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Re: NSW observing standards are at an all time low

Postby paulm » Wed Nov 17, 2010 6:17 am

I don’t know who you are buddy but I must congratulate you or your diplomacy skills – I have had a number of our faithful observers email me already to say ‘get lost for 2011’ so if you think the quality of observing in NSW is at an all time low you’ve just solved the problem – you’ll be doing it yourself

Nice work.

Paul McGrath



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ianrogers
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Re: NSW observing standards are at an all time low

Postby ianrogers » Wed Nov 17, 2010 7:41 am

Being unashamably unaffiliated and subsequently 99% non competitive I see the problem from my side of the fence as being the fear observers have of having their arses chewed out by undiplomatic, arogant riders who all have a higher opinion of themselves than is often times justified. And there in lies the problem. Mr & Mrs Joe Average are to intimidated to observe on a regular basis which means that you are always getting a constant turnover of inexperienced observers who only last one or two events before they too are insulted or more likely fear that they may be. There is no disputing that the upper echalon of riders are competitive, and quite rightly so, but until you convince them that they may be the root of the problem then the problem will persist. Perhaps you could approach the Fink's or Satan's Disciple's to come along and observe, then there would be no arguments I bet? :twisted: No a bad idea actually, if I may say so myself!

We have absolutly no problems getting observers for all our 10 event per year because, not only aren't there any Sheep Stations up for grabs, but both the riders and observers unambiguously know that if there any arguments that the observers are always in the right and the rider who saw fit to make a goose out of himself will be asked to pack up and go home and don't come back anytime soon. A non competive environment certainly takes the pressure off but until you make it clear that the repercussions for chewing out observers will be instantanious disqualification then the problem will continue to persist. I have seen too often riders having his wrists slapped by the officials, if at all, for this kind of behavior, and at Aussie Titles Events too might I add, with the result being a loss of yet another perfectly good yet now pissed off observer from the ever diminissing pool of volunteers.

As for the 90 second rule, we don't use it and in my humble opinion it should only be used for the A/Experts who are the ones that create the inevitable traffic jambs in the first place due to the non flowing nature of their sections. The rest of us are just too damb lazy to balance for 5 minutes we just want to get on with it and get to that sarsparella cooling in the esky.

Don't chew me out Crafty for not providing my full name 8)


"The older I get the better I was"

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Re: NSW observing standards are at an all time low

Postby brt650 » Wed Nov 17, 2010 4:26 pm

Hello Promo,
Do me a favour and don't bother turning up at any Denman Motorcycle Club events please. At our club events we have the pleasure of real Mum's and Dad's,Brother's and Sister's taking time out of there busy schedules to watch over us. They do an excellent job. First rate actually.

Brian Thompson



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Re: NSW observing standards are at an all time low

Postby Twinshock » Wed Nov 17, 2010 4:45 pm

As the retiring President of Logan River Motorcycle Trials Club (LRMTC) I felt obliged to respond to the inflamitory comments made by Promo, whoever he/she is.
If ever a subject was destined to anger and provoke those willing helpers who contribute so much to the sport of "Observed Trials" this was it.
For goodness sake Promo, if you are that experienced in this sport that I have been riding in for 50+ years, why the hell didn't you or the appropriate person(s) go about protesting in the proper manner rather than bleating on a public forum which made you look extremely uninformed of the systems within our sport.
And how about the "minder" knowing that the rider was going over the 90 second limit, he could have shouted "times up" so don't just go on about the "all time low standard observers".
How many clubs conduct a training session for observers at the start of an important event and assess the standard of the people they have been training before it starts, very few I would suggest which is not the observers fault.
I personally know of several family observers who will never observe again because of the arrogant, rude and aggressive manner of riders and minders from this season and how hard will it be to get them back without stupid forum topics like this from Promo.
Do us all a favour Promo and take up another sport and leave us in peace.
Roger Galpin



Promo
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Re: NSW observing standards are at an all time low

Postby Promo » Wed Nov 17, 2010 6:34 pm

Hi All,
Enough said.

It is a shame that when people bring up the rules that everyone gets defensive and it appears our forum readers want to operate under the GCR’s of the 1970’s or their own rules. The GCR’s do get updated each year and for good reasons. Roger, I invite you to download them from the MA website and get with the times or perhaps make your own club with old bikes and old rules, like denman, then you may be at peace.

It is hard to explain the rules to possible new comers and promote the sport professionally when we will then turn around and say, don’t worry about that rule, we just ignore it and do what we want.

Who are any of you to pick and choose which GCR rules we follow in the sport?

Maybe some of you should write a formal letter to the Trials Commission and have the 90 second rule removed if you are that passionate about it. I understand that the 90 second time limit rule was introduced many years after it was used in European Events. This was to make the sport more appealing to spectators, so people could not balance in the section for 5min, it increased the pace and appeal for spectator and rider alike. I am assuming most people who have responded are in the lower grades and have never seen or been affected by the 90 second limit.

Yes, the observers do need better instruction and training. Overall there are not that may rules to abide by and it is not that hard to explain. If our juniors understand from such a young age I am sure all observers should be able to pick it up, given proper instruction. How about we pay the observers for their time from the profits that are being made from some clubs, we would then get the observers we desperately need and this topic would be treated with more respect.

Well lets all do whatever and not be concerned with rules. Maybe the first lap can be a practice lap of the sections and not count. I think this would make some of you happy. Or lets bring in mark your own card for State and National Championships

I don’t really want to attack you all, as you have done me. I would rather look at the issue and lets be clear, the issue is not with the actual observers it is with the clubs and their officials not training correctly or spot checking that they have taught the observers the rules correctly. Lets all take our ego’s away and consider the underlying point.



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CRAFTY
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Re: NSW observing standards are at an all time low

Postby CRAFTY » Wed Nov 17, 2010 7:01 pm

Promo????

You still don't get it do you.
Are you suggesting we should have cancelled the NSW title round because someone left the stop watches at home 2 hours away? If you are you would be better suited to another sport.
I understand that rules are made for a reason but there are times that common sense should prevail.
Obviously your results as an expert rider (I'm making this assumption as you are obviously not at a lowly B, C,or clubperson level and A grade has no title class so your trophy wouldnt be in jeopardy) were affected by time penalties or lack there-of. No reason to tear up :( and take it out on those that volunteer their time to run events for us all. There is a protest system in place which you are welcome to use at an event (photo evidence is not permitted, so filming others will not help you.)
The NSW clubs do an outstanding job of running succesful events and I'm sure if you were to leave trials there wouldn't be too many broken hearts. Its wankers like yourself that make our sports officials, organisers and observers (all volunteers) feel like saying get stuffed and giving up. Then there would be no dramas with time penalties or observer standards as there would be no events.
You obviously don't have much involvement with your club or you would understand that trials is not a money maker. If you work out permit fees, rider levy, observers lunches, landholder fees, trophies, etc there is not a lot left to also fund observers.
Glenn



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Re: NSW observing standards are at an all time low

Postby Twinshock » Wed Nov 17, 2010 7:31 pm

Again Promo, you show your inexperience in our sport. I don't need to "download the GCR's from the MA website" as we are issued with a booklet called the Manual of Motorcycle Sport (MOMS) annually so I know what the rules are.
LRMTC has been around for 37 years and we have produced an Aussie Open Champion twice and many other champions in other grades over recent years, so we are, "up with the times" so keep your comments in context.
The big difference here is that you know who you are talking to,,,, but I don't.

I think you might have upset some Denman members as well, you're having a bad day Promo

Rog G (AKA Twinshock)



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Re: NSW observing standards are at an all time low

Postby The Observer » Wed Nov 17, 2010 9:05 pm

AHaaa...
Promo,
If you'd be so obliging to let me know your asddress, so that I (and I presume many others) can hand in our Officials & Marshalls / Observer accreditations ...

David Ault (The Observer)




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