c grade lines

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Darren Robinson
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c grade lines

Postby Darren Robinson » Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:30 am

I would like to start a discussion on C Grade lines. After competing at the Easter Argyle weekend and finding the C grade line very enjoyable. I believe we would have more people move from clubman to C grade if the standard of C grade lines was set as they were at Argyle. There has been a too greater gap between clubman and Cgrade in the past. If C grade is too easy then there is C plus. The previous C grade lines were too hard especially on twin shock and classics, C grade should be more about getting around obsticles ( eg tight turns) and small rocky sections than climbing over large rocks. I would like to hear other peoples opinions on this. P.s well done Clive and the rest of the OMCC very enjoyable weekend.P.S 2 by the way i came 6 out of 7 but enjoyed every line



sdeane01
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Re: c grade lines

Postby sdeane01 » Mon Apr 09, 2012 2:05 pm

I think we need to look after our clubmen and c grade riders as they form the majority of trials riders and where new riders will learn their craft. The problem with lowering C grade lines is the fact that the smallest jump in grades is from clubmen to C grade. Perhaps the C grade lines need to be left open and those who wish to challenge themselves ride the harder part. The problem i have seen is not many people do this, people are often too worried by their score and dont often try a harder line.

Just my thoughts.



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Re: c grade lines

Postby Markjw » Mon Apr 09, 2012 4:27 pm

Good comments here.
I am a clubman (very Average) and would like to test myself more but the set up is to big is some sections. I would love to try harder lines, but with not good skills I find the sections very daunting and also wish the grade above was a gradual skill step up. I think a D grade or C grade and C+ grade would be good. The bulk of the riders in any trial I have seen, (well over 60%) ride the blue and white lines. I Think that the 2 Day Sherco Cup - a brilliant and extremely well run event - had well over 70% or riders in these grades, an no A grade. So look after the Juniors and novices, the help the Clubman and C grade make the set up - we are not sissies for not riding the next grade up lines, we just do not have the skills (or can afford to get hurt) yet, and a lot may never get that grade up. There are an awful lot of clubman and C graders who have been in those grades for a long time. Please don't trot out the "Clubman can ride anywhere they like" that is not what this is about, it is being able to ride a grade up not 2 or 3 grades up.
So my vote is for Novice, Clubman, C Grade, C+ grade, then B and up. --- Mark



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Re: c grade lines

Postby FM350 » Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:03 pm

Why not run a 50/50 route, which avoids the more difficult parts of the harder sections?



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Re: c grade lines

Postby Stout » Mon Apr 09, 2012 8:35 pm

FM350 wrote:Why not run a 50/50 route, which avoids the more difficult parts of the harder sections?


If I understand this idea correctly, it is similar to what I did informally for much of last year. I had hoped to step up to c-grade at the start of 2011, but for various reasons did not. In an attempt to keep developing my riding skills as opposed to my concentration, focus, or whatever it takes to clean every clubman line all day (never worked this out) I started incorporating one or two blue splits into my line through each section. While this rarely had me riding the full c-grade line through a section, it forced me to stretch a bit and gave me the confidence to start in c-grade this year. Having done so, the biggest thing I've noticed in the handful of c-grade trials I've entered (or in the case of last weekend, studied very closely) is the variation in difficulty between trials. Whereas clubman lines seemed to be much the same everywhere and regardless of whether it was a club or open trial, the difficulty (and I mean actual difficulty, not 'apparent' difficulty) of c-grade lines seems to be all over the place. So my small contribution to this discussion would be that if we are to strive for something different with respect to c-grade lines, perhaps it should be a more consistent level of difficulty. I'm not too concerned - having scribbled my name on a piece of blue ice cream container now, I'm not about to go back to clubman and will keep throwing myself at wheverer the splits are. But knowing the blue line will generally be a consistent amount harder than clubman might make the step up less daunting for others.



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Re: c grade lines

Postby Stout » Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:34 pm

Maybe its a long standing problem because of responses like that...

Having the same person set every section is not the only way to have a standard. Do you need to have the same electrician wire every house in the country to make sure they are done to the same standard?

Why does there seem to be a more common understanding of what constitutes a clubman line?

Is there a document I can refer to that will tell me what obstacles I can expect / what skills I will need to ride a line of a given grade? These guidelines exist in other sports where entries are differentiated by difficulty and skill level. Here is an example:

http://www.act.orienteering.asn.au/gfol ... anning.pdf

I agree wholeheartedly that more competitors involved in all aspects of organising and setting up events (there is a lot more to be done than throwing in a few splits after all) would be a good thing, but I don't shre your confidence that is the solution. Do you think having every prospective c-grade rider for the following day at the venue the afternoon before trying to agree on split locations would really solve the problem? It would be a nice problem to have at least once I suppose.



jacks1071
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Re: c grade lines

Postby jacks1071 » Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:38 pm

I am a complete novice and rode my first event this weekend passed.

All riders walked all the sections as a group with the guy who set the sections. Everyone was asked on each section if everything was alright, did they want any changes.

A few changes were made for the C-grade sections and everyone was really happy. Very friendly event, maybe not possible with bigger numbers of riders but I thought it was fantastic.

Once everyone had filled their cards riders were welcome to play in the sections where you could try the harder bits without concern about your card. I didn't bother to put a score in since it was so bad but I had such a great weekend.

Can't wait to do it again (after practicing my turns!).



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Re: c grade lines

Postby Samy » Tue Apr 10, 2012 3:12 am

Winning or losing, it matters not but for the pain afterwards ;)

After a 13 year break I was back on the bikes last year riding clubman. I eventually started doing some c grade stuff which promptly allowed me to break my arm :) the biggest issue i see is that clubman allows a rider to have a day out with less chance of breaking the bike or yourself. C grade, at some trials more than others, presents a real risk of danger to those who often find clubman too easy - so they stay in clubman as they feel they have little choice. I rode some trials last year where I found clubman too easy (even though I came 5th place on 8 points) but there's no way in hell I would attempt some of the c grade sections.

This also brings up another point, that because many clubman riders do not go up a grade there are trials where the 1st place winner doesn't drop barely a point. It's becoming the norm that the winners are regularly cleaning almost the entire trial. Now call me crazy but if you're regularly winning a trial on less than 10 points then it's time to go up a grade.

The SQTA club has it down pat with their divisions, if you go up a grade you ride mostly the same lines anyway but with a few harder arrows thrown in on a select few sections.

Just my late night 2 cents

Cheers



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Re: c grade lines

Postby FM350 » Tue Apr 10, 2012 8:32 am

At most classic events here in the UK riders have to contend with a 1 or 2 route format, which often means sections that are far to hard or much too easy.

In trials there is a very wide range of rider ability, and at club level events its probably a good idea to run using a three route format, with a 50/50 split on the middle route between harder and easier, which means five routes, that should cater for most riders likely to be taking part.



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Re: c grade lines

Postby Geoff Lewis » Tue Apr 10, 2012 10:40 am

Hi All, This is a very interesting topic as there is obviously a lot of different opinions about how hard or how easy some lines should be set. Many years ago at the Glenmaggie Easter trial (more years ago than I would like to admit) I had a discussion with Dave Ryan regarding the severity of sections prior to going out to assist the setters at this particular trial and he said to me "You know Geoff, at the end of a relatively easy trial, a lot of people are hanging around, smiling , joking and laughing, at the end of a really tough trial, people don't seem too happy and just want to pack up and get home." I took this into consideration and have used this as a guiding philosophy when setting sections ever since. A couple of tougher sections to sort out the winners is probably enough and for those who find it not challenging enough they can enter the next grade up or incorporate some more difficult elements to their line. We are all there for fun and fitness and companionship after all and the general Trials community is aging rapidly. In Victoria the C+ line has been a very positive thing and is very popular. The section setters don't always get it right but I believe they always try to do their best. Broadford Bonanza was a great event by the way, great P.R for our sport!
Regards Geoff


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