Now that I think of it that chamber vas very dry. I would have expected more oil on the walls from blow back. That may mean my attempt to make the reads act like a boost bottle may be working.
My long time friend the pransing horse
Moderator: Moderators
Re: My long time friend the pransing horse
The air cleaner lasted another long ride. This ride was not as dusty but still pushing through bush.
Lots of small floaties but no big bits.
Everything is where I left it and reasonably clean so I will just leave it and keep developing the carbonation.
To me it looks ok but I don't know about the black soot around the outside rim. Could be the TY fuelling system for getting a big quick gut full at low revs. I'm thinking the big main air jet, large jetted emulsion tube and large main jets are for getting good atermisation at low revs. You have to have a quick response at low revs and well aerated fuel is lighter and quicker to respond. This could explain why the main jet is so large when the carb gets bigger.
If anyone with TY spark plug reading ability can advise me on there experience with what this plug is saying I would be very happy to hear
Lots of small floaties but no big bits.
Everything is where I left it and reasonably clean so I will just leave it and keep developing the carbonation.
To me it looks ok but I don't know about the black soot around the outside rim. Could be the TY fuelling system for getting a big quick gut full at low revs. I'm thinking the big main air jet, large jetted emulsion tube and large main jets are for getting good atermisation at low revs. You have to have a quick response at low revs and well aerated fuel is lighter and quicker to respond. This could explain why the main jet is so large when the carb gets bigger.
If anyone with TY spark plug reading ability can advise me on there experience with what this plug is saying I would be very happy to hear
hindsight is a terable way to learn I'd rather be gifted
Re: My long time friend the pransing horse
When I first put this bike together I had to clean out an straighten one rear shock. They proved to have no compression or rebound I was bounced of the track! I was warned not to get cheep suspension but the wallet ruled so I got these Asian ones. I don't know what they were made for but they are hard. I put it at one new shock on softest spring setting on the right and one clapped out standard shock on hardest spring setting. And it works.
hindsight is a terable way to learn I'd rather be gifted
Re: My long time friend the pransing horse
I am disappointed with the 26. It works but its off down low and over carbed up top. So I put the 24 back in. All my old settings that I remember and the Tioli air box.
It was off. Now I'm in a jetting black hole and am looking at re building the settings. Shorly the my mod on the standard system can't be that restrictive.
3 days later I realise I put a 16 front sprocket on the same time as the 26mm which is why I didn't think the the power was that much better and possibly less in other areas. It's not till you go back to 24mm that you notice the difference, there is less go. This could be because I put the Tioli air box on and the 26mm. The bike improved the percentage between 15t and 16t front std rear
This gave me the encourage mention to test a theory that I need to get control of just off idle to 1/2 throttle
To my calculations I need to take a mm off the slide.
Grind, file, shampfer, and fine file I modified a 1.5 which is already a small cutaway.
On the left is 2.5, seems to be a popular size and on the right is my version of 1.
I still think the bronze one looks thinner but the maths says don't worry about it and use the ty175 comp one.
Instant change, I did not realise how much improvement lay in that range. I was so enthused I modified my 26 to emulate a 24mm. (Both 26mm)
That 26 will really benefit from a small cutaway. The 24 was better than the 26 again. I'm sure I'm going to need the 26 size some time.
I was in a shape it first and fix it later kind of mode. Knocked the brass bung in the pilot air passage, deep in its hole to it started to interfere with the pilot air jet.
I assessed the break through as minor. The air flows to the right and there is a seal up the passage. Minor turbulence
It was off. Now I'm in a jetting black hole and am looking at re building the settings. Shorly the my mod on the standard system can't be that restrictive.
3 days later I realise I put a 16 front sprocket on the same time as the 26mm which is why I didn't think the the power was that much better and possibly less in other areas. It's not till you go back to 24mm that you notice the difference, there is less go. This could be because I put the Tioli air box on and the 26mm. The bike improved the percentage between 15t and 16t front std rear
This gave me the encourage mention to test a theory that I need to get control of just off idle to 1/2 throttle
To my calculations I need to take a mm off the slide.
Grind, file, shampfer, and fine file I modified a 1.5 which is already a small cutaway.
On the left is 2.5, seems to be a popular size and on the right is my version of 1.
I still think the bronze one looks thinner but the maths says don't worry about it and use the ty175 comp one.
Instant change, I did not realise how much improvement lay in that range. I was so enthused I modified my 26 to emulate a 24mm. (Both 26mm)
That 26 will really benefit from a small cutaway. The 24 was better than the 26 again. I'm sure I'm going to need the 26 size some time.
I was in a shape it first and fix it later kind of mode. Knocked the brass bung in the pilot air passage, deep in its hole to it started to interfere with the pilot air jet.
I assessed the break through as minor. The air flows to the right and there is a seal up the passage. Minor turbulence
hindsight is a terable way to learn I'd rather be gifted
Re: My long time friend the pransing horse
Tioli. 7 RRRRRRR. "A moment in time".
My bikes have spirit.
My bikes have spirit.
hindsight is a terable way to learn I'd rather be gifted
Re: My long time friend the pransing horse
Slide cutaway 2.5, 2, 1.5, mod 1 from a 1.5
Everything from the 24 has to be transferred over to the 26.
The reason for the smaller cutaway is it forces the incoming air to travel faster over the Venturi on the emulsion tube which makes it suck harder and therefore richer. The ratio of air fuel is not changed just more of it which has been frustrating me in my inability to control it. Now that may change
First run on the new 26
Full bell mouth mod
Main air jet - 2mm
DT emulsion tube 5 hole float bowl jet type
Main jet 360
Pilot jet 225
Cutaway #1
TY175 comp needle clip 3
Pilot air jet turns?
Didn't even get it out for a run. It idles to high. There is slack in the cable but can't bring it down. Took the carb out and painted the base with whiteboard marker and closed it and wiggled to see where it rubs. Seems I could put more chamfer on it the rest looks ok.
Trimmed and cleaned up
Now closes as good as a standard one. Not that there was much difference. If this doesn't work I will have to counter trim it as it must be sucking air in small amounts from all over sides, pilot, top, choke and idle adjuster which end I replaced with one that has a new oring to seal better
Turns out the problem was the cable because of the 1mm I took off the slide the cable is holding it just up a fraction even after I wind all the adjusters in. I fixed it by removing the lock off nut so that the cable could get some slack.
#1 First run its not as good as the 24. The 5 hole emulsion tube never workers as good on the 26 as the TY 2 hole. Seems to work better on the 24 but this could be to drawing harder so it gets its aeration.
Pull it out and change to a 2 hole.
The pilot air adjustment felt like I could go a tad richer from the 22.5 to a 25
Change 1 - 2 hole emulsion tube and 25 pilot jet.
The 2 hole is better but the 25 pilot is not
Swaped the #1 cutaway for a 1.5 And you could hear it slurping as soon as it started just muddier. I think the 26mm could do wit a .5 cut away.
This set up is easier to work on than standard
Everything from the 24 has to be transferred over to the 26.
The reason for the smaller cutaway is it forces the incoming air to travel faster over the Venturi on the emulsion tube which makes it suck harder and therefore richer. The ratio of air fuel is not changed just more of it which has been frustrating me in my inability to control it. Now that may change
First run on the new 26
Full bell mouth mod
Main air jet - 2mm
DT emulsion tube 5 hole float bowl jet type
Main jet 360
Pilot jet 225
Cutaway #1
TY175 comp needle clip 3
Pilot air jet turns?
Didn't even get it out for a run. It idles to high. There is slack in the cable but can't bring it down. Took the carb out and painted the base with whiteboard marker and closed it and wiggled to see where it rubs. Seems I could put more chamfer on it the rest looks ok.
Trimmed and cleaned up
Now closes as good as a standard one. Not that there was much difference. If this doesn't work I will have to counter trim it as it must be sucking air in small amounts from all over sides, pilot, top, choke and idle adjuster which end I replaced with one that has a new oring to seal better
Turns out the problem was the cable because of the 1mm I took off the slide the cable is holding it just up a fraction even after I wind all the adjusters in. I fixed it by removing the lock off nut so that the cable could get some slack.
#1 First run its not as good as the 24. The 5 hole emulsion tube never workers as good on the 26 as the TY 2 hole. Seems to work better on the 24 but this could be to drawing harder so it gets its aeration.
Pull it out and change to a 2 hole.
The pilot air adjustment felt like I could go a tad richer from the 22.5 to a 25
Change 1 - 2 hole emulsion tube and 25 pilot jet.
The 2 hole is better but the 25 pilot is not
Swaped the #1 cutaway for a 1.5 And you could hear it slurping as soon as it started just muddier. I think the 26mm could do wit a .5 cut away.
This set up is easier to work on than standard
hindsight is a terable way to learn I'd rather be gifted
Re: My long time friend the pransing horse
Putting the needle to 5th clip makes the 1.5 cutaway better which is where I was at last time. Couldn't get it rich enough lowdown. Now lets see how the 1 cutaway is.
That was good and makes me think of cutting the slide a bit more to make it a .5.
By changing the needle clip position it helps to work out what to do as cutaway and needle clip position overlap a bit.
The needle is on clip 5 which is the richest and at the end of the range. I will give clip 1 a go just to see
Shocking really big difference. I'm on the right trail just need to over shoot it and come back to mid settings. Now have to change the cut away to a .5
I have now taken 1.5 mm of the slide length which in turn reduces the cutaway
I think thats about all I could remove or else it will be none.
I will leave the clip 1 position in for the first run to see if it comes back inline.
I'm surprised how much changing the clip position changes the idle setting in theory the two are not in the same range but they are.
Same high idle problem I'm going to solve it temperely by not running a rubber washer and later trim the cap thread protrusion back 1mm.
The clip 1 position is better with the .5 cutaway but now the transition from just off idle to 1/4 - 1/3 throttle is very noticeable. (Big hole)
Nice. On the Clip 5 position. I'm out of time to test any more today this has taken 5 hours?
Will need to put the pilot bask to 22.5 possibly even buy a smaller one.
Next test is back to back 24/26 test. If the 24 is better I have my eye on a sweet flat slide smooth boar 24mm. If 24 turns out to be best then why not put in a shmik 24mm that will flow like these old style 26's
Just did another bunch of tests and I largely have my final veridic.
1) If you want instant response from idle then you need the 24mm with the 2 hole emulsion tube 2.5mm TY comp air jet size and .5 - 1 cutterway.
2) if you want a little more midrange but still good off low then go for the JC type emulsion tube. You still need the low cutter ways as its a bigger carb than standard so needs to draw harder. The TY comp air jet feeds the emulsion tube more air that a JC so it's a hybrid between the two.
3) if you want reasonable instant response from idle with really long legs all the way through then go for the 26mm with the 2 hole emulsion tube and a really big jet 400 ish and .5 cutter way.
I did some reading last night and confirmed a suspicion that these carbs have 4 stroke emulsion tubes in them! The design is to have air in the emulsion tube passage and aerate early and well like old 4 strokes like to have. They suck half as often and low down. If you want bottom end out of a 2stroke then you have to do the same. The problem is when you start asking for top end. At some point this system will be sucking to much air mixed in with the fuel and go lean up top. This explains why I have been having this constant problem with getting it rich enough down low then needing large jets up top.
At one point I was going to admit defeat and use the 24mm with the modified standard air box. changing the slide cutterway has changed the fuelling enough for me to stay with the 26. Not quite as good from really low but better everywhere else. I don't think the 26 is suited to a standard air box.
PS. My testing was with a 16T front sprocket second gear on about a 30 degrees incline. If you scale that back to a 13T trials gearing you aren't going to notice any variation apart from the long legs and increased go.
That was good and makes me think of cutting the slide a bit more to make it a .5.
By changing the needle clip position it helps to work out what to do as cutaway and needle clip position overlap a bit.
The needle is on clip 5 which is the richest and at the end of the range. I will give clip 1 a go just to see
Shocking really big difference. I'm on the right trail just need to over shoot it and come back to mid settings. Now have to change the cut away to a .5
I have now taken 1.5 mm of the slide length which in turn reduces the cutaway
I think thats about all I could remove or else it will be none.
I will leave the clip 1 position in for the first run to see if it comes back inline.
I'm surprised how much changing the clip position changes the idle setting in theory the two are not in the same range but they are.
Same high idle problem I'm going to solve it temperely by not running a rubber washer and later trim the cap thread protrusion back 1mm.
The clip 1 position is better with the .5 cutaway but now the transition from just off idle to 1/4 - 1/3 throttle is very noticeable. (Big hole)
Nice. On the Clip 5 position. I'm out of time to test any more today this has taken 5 hours?
Will need to put the pilot bask to 22.5 possibly even buy a smaller one.
Next test is back to back 24/26 test. If the 24 is better I have my eye on a sweet flat slide smooth boar 24mm. If 24 turns out to be best then why not put in a shmik 24mm that will flow like these old style 26's
Just did another bunch of tests and I largely have my final veridic.
1) If you want instant response from idle then you need the 24mm with the 2 hole emulsion tube 2.5mm TY comp air jet size and .5 - 1 cutterway.
2) if you want a little more midrange but still good off low then go for the JC type emulsion tube. You still need the low cutter ways as its a bigger carb than standard so needs to draw harder. The TY comp air jet feeds the emulsion tube more air that a JC so it's a hybrid between the two.
3) if you want reasonable instant response from idle with really long legs all the way through then go for the 26mm with the 2 hole emulsion tube and a really big jet 400 ish and .5 cutter way.
I did some reading last night and confirmed a suspicion that these carbs have 4 stroke emulsion tubes in them! The design is to have air in the emulsion tube passage and aerate early and well like old 4 strokes like to have. They suck half as often and low down. If you want bottom end out of a 2stroke then you have to do the same. The problem is when you start asking for top end. At some point this system will be sucking to much air mixed in with the fuel and go lean up top. This explains why I have been having this constant problem with getting it rich enough down low then needing large jets up top.
At one point I was going to admit defeat and use the 24mm with the modified standard air box. changing the slide cutterway has changed the fuelling enough for me to stay with the 26. Not quite as good from really low but better everywhere else. I don't think the 26 is suited to a standard air box.
PS. My testing was with a 16T front sprocket second gear on about a 30 degrees incline. If you scale that back to a 13T trials gearing you aren't going to notice any variation apart from the long legs and increased go.
hindsight is a terable way to learn I'd rather be gifted
Re: My long time friend the pransing horse
I think I just about have it.
I've had some fun getting to know this bike.
Still a lot to learn
I'm drawn to a ride on the kwaka
It's perfectly geared for mixed suburban, gravel road and cheeky.
I can take of at the lights and near on pick up the front wheel from stand still, about a foot of the ground to 9000 rpm
There is always more on the horizon
I've had some fun getting to know this bike.
Still a lot to learn
I'm drawn to a ride on the kwaka
It's perfectly geared for mixed suburban, gravel road and cheeky.
I can take of at the lights and near on pick up the front wheel from stand still, about a foot of the ground to 9000 rpm
There is always more on the horizon
hindsight is a terable way to learn I'd rather be gifted
Re: My long time friend the pransing horse
Dusk
I've been thinking about this bike
And I have a few ideas
May have to revisit and take a different perspective
It's coming into view
I've been thinking about this bike
And I have a few ideas
May have to revisit and take a different perspective
It's coming into view
hindsight is a terable way to learn I'd rather be gifted
Re: My long time friend the pransing horse
It's all thereto be see if I just look a little clearer.
The technical will work its self out.
One day the moderators will say "you have used up enough memory". But until then its all about me.
The technical will work its self out.
One day the moderators will say "you have used up enough memory". But until then its all about me.
hindsight is a terable way to learn I'd rather be gifted
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