My long time friend the pransing horse

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Tioli
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Re: My long time friend the pransing horse

Postby Tioli » Fri Jan 25, 2013 11:21 pm

Now that I think of it that chamber vas very dry. I would have expected more oil on the walls from blow back. That may mean my attempt to make the reads act like a boost bottle may be working.
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Surprisingly dry
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hindsight is a terable way to learn I'd rather be gifted

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Tioli
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Re: My long time friend the pransing horse

Postby Tioli » Thu Jan 31, 2013 7:18 pm

The air cleaner lasted another long ride. This ride was not as dusty but still pushing through bush.
Lots of small floaties but no big bits.
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No big bits


Everything is where I left it and reasonably clean so I will just leave it and keep developing the carbonation.
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All good


To me it looks ok but I don't know about the black soot around the outside rim. Could be the TY fuelling system for getting a big quick gut full at low revs. I'm thinking the big main air jet, large jetted emulsion tube and large main jets are for getting good atermisation at low revs. You have to have a quick response at low revs and well aerated fuel is lighter and quicker to respond. This could explain why the main jet is so large when the carb gets bigger.

If anyone with TY spark plug reading ability can advise me on there experience with what this plug is saying I would be very happy to hear
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Re: My long time friend the pransing horse

Postby Tioli » Fri Feb 01, 2013 9:38 pm

When I first put this bike together I had to clean out an straighten one rear shock. They proved to have no compression or rebound I was bounced of the track! I was warned not to get cheep suspension but the wallet ruled so I got these Asian ones. I don't know what they were made for but they are hard. I put it at one new shock on softest spring setting on the right and one clapped out standard shock on hardest spring setting. And it works.
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The left side looks original.


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Re: My long time friend the pransing horse

Postby Tioli » Fri Feb 01, 2013 10:34 pm

I am disappointed with the 26. It works but its off down low and over carbed up top. So I put the 24 back in. All my old settings that I remember and the Tioli air box.

It was off. Now I'm in a jetting black hole and am looking at re building the settings. Shorly the my mod on the standard system can't be that restrictive.

3 days later I realise I put a 16 front sprocket on the same time as the 26mm which is why I didn't think the the power was that much better and possibly less in other areas. It's not till you go back to 24mm that you notice the difference, there is less go. This could be because I put the Tioli air box on and the 26mm. The bike improved the percentage between 15t and 16t front std rear

This gave me the encourage mention to test a theory that I need to get control of just off idle to 1/2 throttle
To my calculations I need to take a mm off the slide.
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I will go with 1mm off.


Grind, file, shampfer, and fine file I modified a 1.5 which is already a small cutaway.
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Grind and file


On the left is 2.5, seems to be a popular size and on the right is my version of 1.
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My version of onemm


I still think the bronze one looks thinner but the maths says don't worry about it and use the ty175 comp one.
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When there is a choice I will follow the maths


Instant change, I did not realise how much improvement lay in that range. I was so enthused I modified my 26 to emulate a 24mm. (Both 26mm)
That 26 will really benefit from a small cutaway. The 24 was better than the 26 again. I'm sure I'm going to need the 26 size some time.
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That was quite difficult


I was in a shape it first and fix it later kind of mode. Knocked the brass bung in the pilot air passage, deep in its hole to it started to interfere with the pilot air jet.
I assessed the break through as minor. The air flows to the right and there is a seal up the passage. Minor turbulence
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Shouldn't interfere


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Re: My long time friend the pransing horse

Postby Tioli » Fri Feb 01, 2013 11:17 pm

Tioli. 7 RRRRRRR. "A moment in time".
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A moment in time


My bikes have spirit.
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Spirit


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A moment in time


hindsight is a terable way to learn I'd rather be gifted

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Re: My long time friend the pransing horse

Postby Tioli » Sat Feb 02, 2013 1:34 pm

Slide cutaway 2.5, 2, 1.5, mod 1 from a 1.5
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1


Everything from the 24 has to be transferred over to the 26.
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24 and 26.


The reason for the smaller cutaway is it forces the incoming air to travel faster over the Venturi on the emulsion tube which makes it suck harder and therefore richer. The ratio of air fuel is not changed just more of it which has been frustrating me in my inability to control it. Now that may change

First run on the new 26
Full bell mouth mod
Main air jet - 2mm
DT emulsion tube 5 hole float bowl jet type
Main jet 360
Pilot jet 225
Cutaway #1
TY175 comp needle clip 3
Pilot air jet turns?
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New 26 settings first run


Didn't even get it out for a run. It idles to high. There is slack in the cable but can't bring it down. Took the carb out and painted the base with whiteboard marker and closed it and wiggled to see where it rubs. Seems I could put more chamfer on it the rest looks ok.
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Trim


Trimmed and cleaned up
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Sand smooth


Now closes as good as a standard one. Not that there was much difference. If this doesn't work I will have to counter trim it as it must be sucking air in small amounts from all over sides, pilot, top, choke and idle adjuster which end I replaced with one that has a new oring to seal better
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Closes as much as a standard one


Turns out the problem was the cable because of the 1mm I took off the slide the cable is holding it just up a fraction even after I wind all the adjusters in. I fixed it by removing the lock off nut so that the cable could get some slack.
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Removed nut


#1 First run its not as good as the 24. The 5 hole emulsion tube never workers as good on the 26 as the TY 2 hole. Seems to work better on the 24 but this could be to drawing harder so it gets its aeration.
Pull it out and change to a 2 hole.

The pilot air adjustment felt like I could go a tad richer from the 22.5 to a 25

Change 1 - 2 hole emulsion tube and 25 pilot jet.
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Change 1


The 2 hole is better but the 25 pilot is not
Swaped the #1 cutaway for a 1.5 And you could hear it slurping as soon as it started just muddier. I think the 26mm could do wit a .5 cut away.
This set up is easier to work on than standard
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Easier to work on


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Re: My long time friend the pransing horse

Postby Tioli » Sat Feb 02, 2013 4:42 pm

Putting the needle to 5th clip makes the 1.5 cutaway better which is where I was at last time. Couldn't get it rich enough lowdown. Now lets see how the 1 cutaway is.
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Clip 5 better on 1.5 cutaway.


That was good and makes me think of cutting the slide a bit more to make it a .5.
By changing the needle clip position it helps to work out what to do as cutaway and needle clip position overlap a bit.
The needle is on clip 5 which is the richest and at the end of the range. I will give clip 1 a go just to see
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Clip 1 just to see the difference


Shocking really big difference. I'm on the right trail just need to over shoot it and come back to mid settings. Now have to change the cut away to a .5

I have now taken 1.5 mm of the slide length which in turn reduces the cutaway
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Took another .5mm off


I think thats about all I could remove or else it will be none.
I will leave the clip 1 position in for the first run to see if it comes back inline.
I'm surprised how much changing the clip position changes the idle setting in theory the two are not in the same range but they are.
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.5 cutaway


Same high idle problem I'm going to solve it temperely by not running a rubber washer and later trim the cap thread protrusion back 1mm.
image.jpg
Same problem again


The clip 1 position is better with the .5 cutaway but now the transition from just off idle to 1/4 - 1/3 throttle is very noticeable. (Big hole)

Nice. On the Clip 5 position. I'm out of time to test any more today this has taken 5 hours?
Will need to put the pilot bask to 22.5 possibly even buy a smaller one.

Next test is back to back 24/26 test. If the 24 is better I have my eye on a sweet flat slide smooth boar 24mm. If 24 turns out to be best then why not put in a shmik 24mm that will flow like these old style 26's

Just did another bunch of tests and I largely have my final veridic.

1) If you want instant response from idle then you need the 24mm with the 2 hole emulsion tube 2.5mm TY comp air jet size and .5 - 1 cutterway.

2) if you want a little more midrange but still good off low then go for the JC type emulsion tube. You still need the low cutter ways as its a bigger carb than standard so needs to draw harder. The TY comp air jet feeds the emulsion tube more air that a JC so it's a hybrid between the two.

3) if you want reasonable instant response from idle with really long legs all the way through then go for the 26mm with the 2 hole emulsion tube and a really big jet 400 ish and .5 cutter way.

I did some reading last night and confirmed a suspicion that these carbs have 4 stroke emulsion tubes in them! The design is to have air in the emulsion tube passage and aerate early and well like old 4 strokes like to have. They suck half as often and low down. If you want bottom end out of a 2stroke then you have to do the same. The problem is when you start asking for top end. At some point this system will be sucking to much air mixed in with the fuel and go lean up top. This explains why I have been having this constant problem with getting it rich enough down low then needing large jets up top.

At one point I was going to admit defeat and use the 24mm with the modified standard air box. changing the slide cutterway has changed the fuelling enough for me to stay with the 26. Not quite as good from really low but better everywhere else. I don't think the 26 is suited to a standard air box.

PS. My testing was with a 16T front sprocket second gear on about a 30 degrees incline. If you scale that back to a 13T trials gearing you aren't going to notice any variation apart from the long legs and increased go.


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Re: My long time friend the pransing horse

Postby Tioli » Fri Feb 08, 2013 9:44 pm

I think I just about have it.
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Just about have it.


I've had some fun getting to know this bike.
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Raised the handlebars


Still a lot to learn
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Its ready but are the kids.


I'm drawn to a ride on the kwaka
It's perfectly geared for mixed suburban, gravel road and cheeky.
I can take of at the lights and near on pick up the front wheel from stand still, about a foot of the ground to 9000 rpm
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My bikes have the spark .


There is always more on the horizon
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There is always more.


hindsight is a terable way to learn I'd rather be gifted

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Re: My long time friend the pransing horse

Postby Tioli » Sat Feb 09, 2013 2:41 pm

Dusk
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Dusk


I've been thinking about this bike
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Where is the next block.


And I have a few ideas
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There is always more if you take the time to look


May have to revisit and take a different perspective
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Flip to the other side


It's coming into view
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Jumble of ideals


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Re: My long time friend the pransing horse

Postby Tioli » Sat Feb 09, 2013 2:55 pm

It's all thereto be see if I just look a little clearer.
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Focus in the picture.


The technical will work its self out.
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I have the tools


One day the moderators will say "you have used up enough memory". But until then its all about me.
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Take it to the next bevel


hindsight is a terable way to learn I'd rather be gifted


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