non stop rules

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boldaussie
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Re: non stop rules

Postby boldaussie » Wed Apr 30, 2014 5:59 pm

And, as for the uninitiated spectators who booed the strict observers, well


I'm glad someone brought it up. From my casual observations on the Saturday there were encouragingly many new spectators of this event or even of motorcycle trials in general, fantastic value for money. Unfortunately many had no concept of what a trial is aside from figuring out the real reason why trials bikes have no need for seats, statements like wow, that's just amazing and stronger were often heard. A golden opportunity to educate new and interested people to the sport I see as being badly missed. I do love cricket analogies, I apologize. Trials for many is like an American trying to work out the game of cricket,they use a bat a ball but what the helllllllllll. Cricket rules are also basic but to the newby incomprehensible. A simple dummy section set up near the sponsors/trade/ amenities area made up as a walk through with explanation of how the course flows, what the markers mean and the how the more difficult obstacles appear from a riders perspective, for different categories would have been easy to do. Even someone on hand to demonstrate the various faults that could be scored for those interested. The kids would have loved it and as kids they love explaining to adults the whys and hows. A more informed audience is a more appreciative one also. Just food for thought.



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Re: non stop rules

Postby The Hell Team » Wed Apr 30, 2014 10:18 pm

This is it in a nutshell. The best in the WORLD accept it.

Well that was not what was going on at the rider's briefing. They HATE it, and let the FIM officials know it in no uncertain terms.
Not a popular topic for the FIM delegates. lots of squeeming, and shuffling about, with no real answers or solutions.
From the vast majority of riders competing at the Australian round they would like to see a return to STOP, and at minimum some definition from the controlling body about any changes that may be implemented, and a time schedule for those.
From were I was standing on the weekend there was a lot of discontent from competitors, and Teams which is not a positive thing for the sport at this moment.


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Steve Holzhauser
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Re: non stop rules

Postby Steve Holzhauser » Wed Apr 30, 2014 10:59 pm

Hi Boldaussie, I agree, it is good that some people will make the time to have their thoughts known and share them.

No stop was the way all of us old fossils learnt our trade and when stop allowed came to be, we had to adapted. I do prefer stop allowed now, mainly so I can remember where I’m going :lol:

Col Scotts note of appreciation for the huge effort that so many good people from within the Trials community and others that volunteered their time so willingly was well deserved, I’m sure his sentiments are shared by everyone that attended the event.

The reality is, without Colin’s commitment and organisational skills an event of this calibre would not be possible.

FIM’s confidence in him and his team in allocating such a prestigious event at the bottom of the world is testimony of his capabilities.

On the home front, his task in securing Victorian Parks approvals for the popular and very accessible Trials riding venue, to the taped walking paths and safety taped areas for spectators, mouth watering catering, car parking facilities, shuttle buses, toilet facilities, manufacturers promotion outlets and even a mini bike test riding area for youngsters. Then topping it off back at the Paddock with a world class freestyle display of unbelievable motorcycle and bicycle riding by our local champ Jack Field, every things seemed to have flowed so well.

He certainly deserves a very big thank you for his untiring efforts that made this events such a wonderful success and all this with the cloud of discontent of no stop to contend with from all quarters.

Colin’s mention of the no stop rule in his thank you note is good to see, as he is aware of the uneasiness this rule has bought to the wider Trials community both here in Australia and abroad. Hopefully as our leading Trials Commissioner, he will take on board the wishes of the riders that are effected by any new rule changes and keep Trials in Australia on a positive and progressive path.

Very well said Keith, I must agree that if we had more people that were as firm and savvy as Gary and boldaussie on all the sections we would have seen a very different result on both days here in Australia, the fact is we do not have that luxury and I bet no country can ensure that uniformity of marking, and I feel that’s where such an open ended enterpretation of a rule flounders and is causing undue concern for everyone from event officials, riders, observers and the viewing public, probably even it’s proponent Thierry Michaud.

The vast majority of the top class riders here in Australia are very concerned to where this may be heading for them, it is not what they want to see introduce here from what I am hearing.

It would be interesting to get some views from some of our leading young riders on their thoughts to the benefits or other wise to the no stop rule , as they are the ones it will impacted upon the most.

Your other point Keith where you say no stop may be beneficial at bringing closer together abilities of the leading riders is true, that was noticeable on day 1 in Australia when really the sections where a bit on the easy side for the calibre of riders in a World title event.

This problem was quickly recognised by the officials and Sundays sections were set to a much higher standard, this then really showed who had the best abilities with a pronounced difference in scores at days end on Sunday.

In respect to your observations and Joe’s reference to the world’s best just having to accept questionable rulings, the riders that feel wronged cannot make to much of a fuss when there are contentious issues with their ride, they again have to tread a very fine line. They are all aware of the risk of further points penalties as well as monetary fines if they go too far in their display of discontentment, so really they have little option.

Another point I find a concern is the disrespect some of the Aussie and foreign riders were shown when they did ask the question of a mark that was credited to them, manners always works both ways at any event whether it is a Club day or a World Trials event.

Pauls comments are further proof of the distain this poor decision is causing and this atmosphere cannot be sustained. If change is not forth coming sooner rather than later I fear we may be seeing the demise of the World Series.



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Re: non stop rules

Postby Joe Henderson » Thu May 01, 2014 7:32 am

No Steve,

I did not say that the worlds best have to accept questionable rulings.

No one should just accept things that they see as incorrect or unjust, that is a fundamental component of liberty, and there exist platforms for rule change lobbying.

The fact that all the riders hate non-stop and the FIM may not be listening is another subject and completely seperate to my concerns.

I also, personally do not think that the no stop rules are the best way forward. Pun intended.

But they are what they are and world trials are run under them. And the riders as professionals get on with it, yes they may hate it, but until they are changed, those are the rules.

What I am worried about is the apparent actions of some observers, (and I am only basing my thinking on what I have been reading in this thread as I was not there), in not applying the rules because they did not agree with them.

That is what will cost the riders money and make a mockery of the event.

If you bend the rules to suit yourself, you don't have a tough competition worth winning and a true (as in straight) test of skill, you have a junior school sports day.

Joe Henderson.



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Re: non stop rules

Postby zulujack » Thu May 01, 2014 8:29 am

The Hell Team wrote:
This is it in a nutshell. The best in the WORLD accept it.

Well that was not what was going on at the rider's briefing. They HATE it, and let the FIM officials know it in no uncertain terms.
Not a popular topic for the FIM delegates. lots of squeeming, and shuffling about, with no real answers or solutions.
From the vast majority of riders competing at the Australian round they would like to see a return to STOP, and at minimum some definition from the controlling body about any changes that may be implemented, and a time schedule for those.
From were I was standing on the weekend there was a lot of discontent from competitors, and Teams which is not a positive thing for the sport at this moment.


I hope they do something about it . Sometimes fixing one problem (Bou winning forever) you introduce a lot of other problems. Then you have to create more rules to solve those problems. ..... I liked it more when it was simple. ;-)



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Re: non stop rules

Postby boldaussie » Sun May 04, 2014 5:20 pm

Seems to me the only way to slow Bou down is for him to break a rib, he still rode beautifully in Japan from the youtube vids I have watched though. I didn't see anywhere I could have called a stop on him either. The riders whether they like the rule or not have no difficulty riding to it. They will if its enforced by we the observers on the day, like it or loathe it, it needs to be or its a farce. I have said my piece on the topic, I can hear the sighs of relief from where I sit. I have enjoyed the discussion. Thanks to all who have followed the topic. Just for the fun of it perhaps Keith could moderate/judge a new topic of peoples ideas on what the rules should ( list style) be and what penalties apply. Till next time my attention gets caught.

Be bold



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Re: non stop rules and the shrinking of the world.

Postby Joe Henderson » Tue May 13, 2014 8:58 am

Airlines are quick these days.

Judging from the video of Dougie's five on Gray Mares tail on Wednesday ( No, no, no what do you mean a five,? It was clearly a three. No it wasn't it was a slight blip that should have been marked at 2.7654! ...and on, and on, and on!) either the malaise of slack marking "because it's not a rule I agree with, and , come on, it is Dougie after all" has spread world wide and we just saw the tail end of it in Maldon, or someone got on a quick boat to Fort William... all by themselves, alone.

The long bow of justification that Dougie's lead at the end made the 2 extra marks he should have had on Wednesday evening irelevant, ( and there is an irelevant in the room ) is tenuous indeed. Give people at this level of endeavour a sniff of blood and a glimpse of human error in their competitors, and watch out, the fur will fly.

I am bloody ecstatic that another Lampkin name is on the trophy and, he above all others is a worthy winner, dont get me wrong, but if he was given the benefit on that, to my mind glaring 5, with full video evidence of the deed, then the question must be asked, did it happen more than once out in the back of beyond to him and others?

Other than that, bloody marvelous drone footage and a wonderful taste and flavour of the Scottish, I can almost taste the burn water.

Joe Henderson.




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