Knee protection

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Tee-Why
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Postby Tee-Why » Tue Jul 24, 2007 11:54 pm

Reading your comment ajharry, but I dont agree with all of it.

My knee injury was hyperflexed and caused my injury, had I been wearing knee braces, this would not have happened, due to the mechanism set in the hinge to prevent this. ie knee braces are preventative also, not only supportive, good reason why I wear another one on my better knee - prevention is better than cure.
I have never re-injured my knee wearing it, but have hurt it by not wearing it in other sport.

ACL ops are not for everyone, due to financial cost, time off work, private health cover and other commitments, but I guess this would be due to the severity of injury, and personal choice.

I cant believe you blokes that have had the op would not protect your knee's so to prevent re-injury by not wearing knee braces? Once I have gone down that road I would not want to be doing that all again.


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Postby David Lahey » Wed Jul 25, 2007 9:45 am

The hyperflex prevention argument for wearing a knee brace is interesting.
Imagine that your knee brace is completely effective at preventing hyperflexion of your knee and you have a similar fall again as the one that caused the damage. What is going to break this time? Femur? Tibia? Ankle? Hip? The overload force has to act somewhere on your body.



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Tee-Why
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Postby Tee-Why » Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:07 pm

David Lahey wrote:The hyperflex prevention argument for wearing a knee brace is interesting.
Imagine that your knee brace is completely effective at preventing hyperflexion of your knee and you have a similar fall again as the one that caused the damage. What is going to break this time? Femur? Tibia? Ankle? Hip? The overload force has to act somewhere on your body.


Very true David, a blow however you end up. I do think I will ultimately need ACL reconstruction as the lateral ligaments have stressed also and at my age of 43, its starting to feel arthritic in the winter, as the original injury occurred 20 years ago . I am interested in reading the points FOR the op from yourself and Adrian because they are very valid ones and present an alternative. :wink:


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Postby flatslide » Wed Jul 25, 2007 4:05 pm

The Sports Specialist I went to (who is highly regarded in ACT) actually recommended against the operation, although he doesnt really have an understanding of Trials. (He would not recommend against it to say a rugby player.)

He did recommend wearing a brace instead. (Not allowed in Rugby or other teams sports) Although knee reconstructions are very std these days its still an operation and it is 12 months before your ACL is back to 100% strength. No amount of physio changes that. People that go back to their sport at 6 months have something like a 35% chance of the same injury reoccurring, at 12 months its about 1%. Of course this will vary between sports. Also there is no such thing as just taking it easy for a while, both Adrian and I were "taking it easy" when we did our ACL's.

I find at my age (around the 40 mark) that if I spend a few months off the bike it takes me double that amount of time to get back to the level I was before the time off. So if I am off the bike for 6 months after the op it will take me another 12 months to get my level and confidence back.

I did not suffer any cartilage or meniscus damage so my knee wont deteriorate further from normal use. Of course that could all change if I strain or dislocate it which is more likely with no ACL.

My plan is to get back into riding and just wear the brace. Bring on the TCC club trial this weekend!



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Postby David Lahey » Wed Jul 25, 2007 4:20 pm

My injury was hyperflexion too and completely snapped the ACL.
I had ridden up a vertical 3 metre dirt bank with a square top and didn't get the rollover right and fell down again to the flat ground at the bottom feet first. The problem was that there was a stick that angled my foot from being flat on the ground so instead of both legs neatly bending upon landing like so many hundred times before that I had fallen back down something, my right knee didn't bend at all (ouch)! I was 41 at the time of the injury.
I waited about 6 months to have my ACL reconstruction mainly to see what life was like with one dicky knee. I work at heavy industrial plants often at heights and after a few times having the knee suddenly give way without warning, I decided to have it fixed.
Because of the way I fell, I don't think a knee brace would have made much difference to the injury.
That was seven years ago now and the memory of the recovery period after the operation has faded. I do remember being able to drive an automatic car after about 2 weeks. It did take years to get my confidence back for jumping up vertical banks on a trials bike but I have no regrets about incurring the injury or having the operation and intend to continue to enjoy my trials riding as long as I am able.
For me the risk of injury is a very small price to pay for the enjoyment that comes from riding trials.



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Knees...

Postby ajharry » Wed Aug 01, 2007 10:39 pm

Hyper-extension (by the way you will not break an ACL under hyper flexion...) now you've asked for detail...
You have a point there on hyper-extension, however a pure hyper-extension break I think you'll find is very very rare despite 2 being above. Also you've called it hyper whatever but you're description does not match that and I doubt if that's what you told the surgeon he said it was a hyper whatever... However that was the main benefit I got out of wearing a knee brace for me as even on walking a section if I stood on say the other side of a rut and my ball of the foot went into the rut taking my leg straight with no support it wacked my knee back into hypo. I basically had to walk continously 'holding' my leg.

The 'what's going to break this time' statement, everything gives and absorbs, eg what happends when you hit a rock and the rear tyre gets pushed to the rim, well by then the rear suspension is moving, what about when that comes to its limits, well then there will be a serious momentum change in the bike and rider, the riders knees take a bit, the brace pushes on the muscle bulk a bit, the hips take a bit, the body takes a bit and by then absorbing all impact - either that or move the earth... Look at a car crash, bit my bit the momentum comes to zero 'absorbing whatever needed' on the way.

The 'specialist' that mentioned not recommending op. Appreciate there are many variables that's why they are specialists. Having said that he may very well understand trials. I think you'll find the 'normal' standing riding position of co-contractions on the legs is the best form of excercise possible. To the point the Physio reckons that's why I got away with mine for so long.

Stretching: Sorry lads not sure how this one is going to help an ACL injury prevention, they don't stretch... Stretching a very big and debatable subject now. Why stretch, what does it do, when... eg stretching causes a muscle to warm however a warm muscle is easier to stretch... hence the warm up then stretch theory... (amongst many).

Remember I took an ACL deficient knee to 2nd aussie twice. Then 6 months after an ACL recon finished 41st in the scottish so...

Go for it!


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Re: Knee protection

Postby davo » Wed Feb 18, 2009 1:35 pm

I guess its a bit of a case of horses for courses.

I wear Morph Knee braces by GAL brothers medical supplies.( Based on the CTI2's but now I think they are just selling CTI2's for the same price - which is great!!!)

To most of the riders out there a lot of the talk probably doesnt mean a lot to them about hyperextension flexion etc.
To me personally I tore my ACL and medial ligament in the right knee.
I exercise vigirously to keep my knees strong (and body fit) but personally will not step on any form of motorcycle without my knee braces.
and yes mine were very expensive at $1400 for a pair but in comparison to what surgery and even physio costs, this is not a lot(actually very good investment to avoid it happening again). The braces have a lifetime warranty and GAL brothers have been exellent to respond to any problems i have had!!
I did find them weird to ride in at first but actually find they support me now and can balance etc much better in them and feel more confident in general.
And they do work!!!
I have come off many many times (something I do a lot) and everytime landed with confidence that my knees will be ok even when my legs have gone the wrong way and I landed awkward!!
It was a very hard decision to make at first but now are by far the most important piece of my safety gear and definately have saved many a trip to hospital!!!

I seriously dont ride without them!!! mx, enduro or trials they are good for it all!!!



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Re: Knee protection

Postby kembro » Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:45 am

Here's a link to a post on Knee braces and ACL injuries.
http://www.thumpertalk.com/forum/showth ... ees+braces
Dr Mark is a specialist, who is happy to answer medical questions.

Personally after pole vaulting a branch on my knee riding I took up wearing braces. Couldn't get used to the feeling, hated wearing them. After some reading i'm with David, that a knee injury isn't as bad as a broken Femur (they can kill you).



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Re: Knee protection

Postby dar1stheory » Fri Apr 03, 2009 3:31 pm

Hey guys,

I've just joined the trials scene this month, and saw it as a great replacement to my former hobby of sportsbike stunting, (Flatland tricks on a recent model sportsbike). I was jumping around on a 200kg bike, sometimes at speeds of up to 100kms an hour coming in to an endo etc.

In June last year I dislocated my left knee tearing medial ligament and causing serious bruising to the bones in the joint, and after 6 months of physio just had an arthroscopy revealing damage to the patella from the disclocation, but the surgeon made the call to leave it as far as a reconstruction goes, suggesting that it may in fact leave me with more complications than I suffer already...

I strap the hell out of my knee with strapping tape, and wear 661 knee shin protectors, which fit inside my boots, but not my dads, (I admittedly have chicken leg syndrome :oops: )

It gives me a huge confidence boost when I wear this simple stuff, I think the knee shin guards cost me about 50 bucks, they have steel reinforcement front and sides, but offer great flexibility!

In the sportsbike stunting world a lot of my mates use these, and they've saved a lot of knee and shin injuries!

My physio reckons that with good strapping, it would take a lot to dislocate again, fingers crossed he's right!



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Neo
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Re: Knee protection

Postby Neo » Fri Apr 03, 2009 5:33 pm

Hi dar1stheory,

Welcome....You're definitely not alone.

If I had a dollar for every "Knee injury" rider (from another discipline) coming to ride Trials ....I'd be a rich man by now :lol:

Best of balance.

Neo


"Nothing more and nothing less than the vision of success"..... Ryan Leech
"TRIALS....It's not life or death....It's much more serious than that!!".....


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